>>Narrator: How do I know which path is best for me?

Is it possible to take on these challenges and obstacles?

Where do I even start?

What should I do with my life?

Sometimes, the only way to find out is to go see what's possible Since 2001, we've been sharing the stories of people who ventured out and explored different career paths and different possibilities for their futures.

This is one of those stories.

This is Roadtrip Nation.

>> Tobias: Hey.

>> Shay: Hello >> Ebony: If we were to offer you a spot on this road trip, how would you feel?

>> Destin: It'll make me feel very good.

>> Enoch: I would be very excited.

>> Tobias: I'll be ecstatic, I'll say, okay, I'm on it, I'm running, I'm going.

>> Ebony: Well, congratulations, you got a spot.

>> Enoch: [LAUGH] >> Tobias: Yes, I'll accept it, yes, of course.

>> Destin: This is the win I was looking for, so I'm hype.

My name is Destin Mizelle, I'm a fifth-year doctoral candidate in the counseling psychology program at the University of Kentucky.

>> Tobias: My name is Tobias Brown, I am a senior political science student on a pre-law track at the Morehouse College.

>> Enoch: My name is Enoch Ellis, I'm a junior, I study at MIT, or Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

We're three Black men pursuing our dreams in higher degree education.

>> Destin: We're going to be taking a road trip in this big green RV to speak with other Black men who have successfully navigated higher education spaces.

>> Tobias: And we're hoping to hear what insights they might have for us as we go through our own journeys.

[MUSIC] >> Destin: For me, I am trying to figure out what to do next, so I'm excited just to talk to people and see how they navigated the space between being okay, I'm a student, and now I'm expected to be this expert, like, what does that look like?

>> Enoch: My dad's a pastor, and I oftentimes don't really think about what I'm doing as anything spectacular.

>> Tobias: Yeah.

>> Enoch: Because I just think this is what's expected of me, >> Tobias: Mhmm.

>>Enoch:I'm always thinking about what's next, >> Destin: Mhmm.

>> Enoch: but at the same time, if you always think about what's next, you're never focused on what you're doing now.

>> Tobias: All right, preach, preacher's kid, that's a word You filled with the Holy Ghost.

That's how it is in the Black church growing up, [CHURCH ORGAN SOUND] >>Tobias: the pastor says [SCREAM] my God got up, [GASP].

with a higher power!

>> Enoch: On the third day.

>> Destin: [LAUGH].

>> Tobias: I am a student that wants knowledge.

So I'm hoping with the leaders that they're open, knowing that we are Black men in higher education hungry for the knowledge, and they're vulnerable with us and give us that information.

>> Destin: Invite us in, invite us in.

>> Tobias: Yeah, invite us in, open arms, give it to me.

I'm from the South, so you know we have hospitality, have a little Southern hospitality.

Yeah, have a little Southern hospitality.

>> Destin: Yeah, big facts.

[MUSIC] >> Destin: Higher education, from what I've learned, is very political, there's a lot of toning down that you may have to do, and I think a lot of that can challenge a person's authenticity to self.

>> Tobias: Being that I go to an HBCU, I'm around people that want me to succeed.

I've had so many community leaders to kind of guide me, and I want to pay that forward by being that beacon of light as they were to me.

>> Enoch: I felt like an immense debt to make sure that whatever I do not only is enough for myself but also my community, and so I'm just really interested in being able to talk to some amazing leaders and figure out how they've been able to make the careers and have the impacts that they wanted to when they were our age.

>> Destin: We'll start as a group in California to do our interviews, but then we're going to head back to our hometowns to do individual interviews with leaders within our communies.

Then we're going to reunite in DC to discuss our experiences.

>> Enoch: So we're on our way to our first interview with Dr. Marcus Anthony Hunter, he's aprofessor at UCLA of sociology and African American studies.

>> Destin: Dr. Hunter, it's really exciting to meet you.

>> Marcus: [LAUGH] >> Destin: I really love seeing just your office and everything.

I can feel the Black joy in here.

I'm curious what it's like to come in this space and maintain all of this and cultivate a space as a Black man to >> Marcus: Mhmm.

>> Destin: study the things you want to study, what did that look like for you?

>> Marcus: It's one of those things where I just realized that at some point, I can really only be me.

I just grew up in a blackity-black, black-on-black household.

Everything that you see here is an album that I either grew up on and probably play in the room.

You know, my dad was really into funk bands, and my mom was really into pop music.

So together, it was just like everywhere, and it was a way that I was actually able to connect to people, and it fed a certain curiosity.

You know, why do we do what we do, especially when we do it together?

What is society?

What is it doing?

And sociology, just to me, gave me the license to pursue that curiosity that I had as a kid to its fullest extent.

And so I think it just behooves us when we do have the license, which is a PhD, a bachelor's degree, a master's degree.

Those are licenses to practice with an understanding that your permission need not come externally, your permission comes internally.

>> Tobias: You said something about being very Black, right?

>> Marcus: Yeah.

And I like to consider myself very Black, but >> Marcus: Yeah, right!

>> Tobias: I often find myself getting into spaces, and I'm turning off my Blackness.

>> Marcus: Mmm.

So my question to you is, how do you go into a room and say, I'm Black, I'm proud, and yeah, nothing can change it, but nothing really can change it?

And I'm going to stand in who I am.

>> Marcus: First, it's the only thing I know how to be, you know >> Tobias: Mmm.

>>Marcus: There used to be a phrase that they would say all the time.

I don't have to do anything but stay Black and die.

And so I would push back and say to you, it is impossible for you to have turned down your Blackness.

I have like a side name, Doctor Blackness, which really emerged because whenever I would go into space, I tended to be the only Black sociologist in the sociology space.

And then even when I was talking with other sociologists, it felt like, for me, they were receiving me as a proxy for all things hood.

And so it just made me say, now, do I lean out of that and try to do something else, or do I just, like, completely embrace it?

And so for a good eight years, I just wore all black to work, and part of it was as a reminder about what space that I was in that was anti-Black.

>> Tobias: Yeah.

>> Marcus: So that I would figure out ways to protect myself.

So also just be kinder to yourself.

And sometimes, why you choose to opt out of something isn't about whether or not you're steeped in your Blackness, but instead about whether or not you wanted to participate.

>> Tobias: You just gave me affirmation, I don't know, I am fighting back my emotions because I am Southern, I am Southern to the core, right?

And so, you know, when going to different places and experiencing different places, you often hear, you're too much, and as you said, that's me.

That's who I am of how I was raised and me being so grounded in who I am and understanding being Black is an art, and that's why I love being Black, because our culture is so amazing and so grand.

>> Marcus: Yeah, the message for me is always about we are in control of our destiny, and if we start to become more inclusive about what we think Black is, we will be so much further along than where we are.

>> Enoch: That's fascinating, I'm just curious, as you were an early professor, how were you able to look at the macro scale and then say, okay, these are the ways that we can actually fix things on a large scale, and then be able to pour back into the community?

>> Marcus: At UCLA, a lot of the students are first-generation students.

One of the first things they say is, you know, when I graduate, I want to give back to my community.

And now, looking at it, I just think how harmful that is.

That's so much weight that you're putting on your degree that it has to pay dividends, to pay your bills and a whole community at the same time.

How unfair is that, versus thinking the people who came on the slave ship were already doctors, teachers, lawyers.

You're not the first, so you can take some of that pressure off of yourself so that your degree just gets to be yours.

So also, if I can, just to release you from the mentation that makes you feel like your degree has to do four things at one time.

And the way to release yourself from it is by saying, if I get this degree, it is therefore beneficial to everyone anyway.

>> Enoch: Talking to Dr. Marcus Anthony Hunter, aka Dr. Blackness.

It taught me a lot about not having to place the burdens of the world on myself.

>> Tobias: If I'm able to go through, it's possible for you to get through that path.

Being successful and achieving higher education, I'm already doing good enough for my community.

>> Destin: To be a Black man in academia means to be representation in the sense of other Black men, I hope they see me and realize that I'm operating through a sense of authenticity.

But also not necessarily being the voice of the people, it's like, no, I'm just speaking for this Black man.

>> Tobias: And then years from now I'm going to say, you remember I met you with Roadtrip.

>> Marcus: [LAUGH] >> [MUSIC] >> Destin: All right, so right now we're at the beach, and we are in Southern California.

We got Tobias, we got Enoch here.

It's interesting, because we mesh so well together.

>> Tobias: After the first night, it was almost like we were just brothers who've grown up together and live together.

>> Enoch: Destin is the fashionista of the group.

He's a really down to earth kind of person.

Tobias is definitely the energy of the group.

>> Enoch: What is that?

[LAUGH] >> Enoch: Do you even play football?

See, I think you would be a good reality TV star, what would be your character though?

>> Tobias: Tobias.

>> Enoch: That would be your character, but then it's not a character, right?

>> Destin: We've got to get a picture together.

>> Enoch: We do.

>> Enoch: You don't want to be in it?

>> Tobias: No.

>> Enoch: No, we got to get a picture together.

>> Destin: [LAUGH] >> Enoch: We got to get a [MUSIC] >> Enoch: So we are finishing up the first part of our road trip.

It's been a lot of fun, I think we've already learned a lot, but now we get to head to our hometowns and do our little solo interviews, see how that goes, then we get to come back in DC.

>> Destin: Yeah.

>> Tobias: Yeah, that was terrible.

[LAUGH] [BEEP] >> Enoch: It's going to be like homecoming for y'all, right?

>> Tobias: Right, it's going to be homecoming, so that's going to be an experience.

Party, good time.

>> Destin: Yeah, got to, it's only right.

>> Tobias: Yeah.

[MUSIC] [STOMPING AND CLAPPING RHYTHMICALLY] >> Tobias: It's always been my thing to go to a HBCU ever since I find out what a HBCU is.

Being that I feel like I have my whole entire life to be a minority.

And to go to a school and an institution that is built and created for me, I just love it.

I just don't think I would have been able to find that elsewhere.

At one point, this was the only thing Morehouse had.

So the presidents were living here, the offices.

And so when the KKK would come, they would ring that bell.

And so everyone would go under the ground and they would go to that building.

Sometimes when I go places, I'm like, I go to Morehouse College.

People say, “you're a Morehouse man”.

And the traditions that we have, the school spirit, the long line of alumni that came out of that door.

The first Black general surgeon was a Morehouse graduate.

Spike Lee, Samuel L Jackson, Martin Luther King's seat is still there in Sale Hall, where he graduated from.

These are prominent men who have made successful lives for themselves.

I just had to be a part of that crowd.

>> [MUSIC] >> Tobias: What's up Roadtrip Nation and welcome to my crib.

I'm studying pre-law because I want to be a federal prosecutor to combat the biases that African American men face in the criminal justice system.

Growing up, I saw the men in my family in the system.

They have felony charges, misdemeanors, but some way they're a part of the system.

And then I read a book by Michelle Alexander.

So this book is called The New Jim Crow.

In this book, she kind of solidified my decision to be a federal prosecutor when she said prosecutors hold the keys to the jail cell.

Being that I'm Black, gay, from the South, I've seen it all, and I know the effects of the system on young Black men.

I just imagine, okay, I could be on the other side helping my community.

I can present, I can drop charges.

I can say, okay, this is not a case.

I have the power to do that as a prosecutor.

And so I really want to help Black men get fair, just treatment with the system.

I often allow myself to get nervous and worry a lot, because if I do fail, I don't feel like I have anyone that I can truly lean on to help me.

I wanted to just have the opportunity to talk to people that are already establishing their careers and just see what their path was and how did they get to where they are?

>> [MUSIC] >> Tobias: I am now headed to interview Mawuli Mel Davis, who is a civil rights attorney at the Davis Bozeman Law Firm, centered here in Atlanta, Georgia.

>> Mawuli: These are a memorial of people who have either been lawyers or they have used the law to push us forward.

So that's BT Franklin.

You see the legal books?

They're in a tent.

>> Tobias: Wow.

>> Mawuli: They're coming right out of the burning down of Tulsa.

>> Mawuli: This is our reminder.

There are those who came before us who, as the folks say, they got it out the mud.

You know what I mean?

This is the legacy that we're trying to build on.

We consider ourselves a community based law firm, and our focus has been how we can help build power in Black communities through the law and in collaboration with organizers.

And so, what we say here, even at our law firm, is that we are not self-made, we're community-made.

Because we relied on the community to build us.

>> Tobias: Wow, first off, you just gave me a whole gem of things that I want to dive into.

One of the main reasons why I wanted to go to school, because I wanted to be able to mentor people back home.

>> Mawuli: Mhmm.

>> Tobias: Young Black boys that look like me in >> Mawuli: Right, right.

>> Tobias: the country that have been brought up and let them know that there's a way that you can achieve higher education.

And I read that you had a mentorship program, so can you talk a little bit about that and what the effects of that program is on a lot of the boys that go through it?

>> Mawuli: So, my experience, my mother grew up impoverished.

I grew up what I think we call lower middle class.

>> Tobias: Okay, all right.

>> Mawuli: [LAUGH] So I don't think we quite made to the- >> Tobias: [LAUGH] You were blessed, you were blessed.

>> Mawuli: And so, my neighborhood, I saw, brothers, young brothers who grew up with me, who made decisions that took them in a different direction.

>> Tobias: I know that all too well, yeah.

>> Mawuli: Right, and I think that part of that experience with Black men and boys has been seeing how the education system feeds into the criminal justice system.

And then, what do we do to disrupt that?

In 2016, we founded the Black Man Lab, where we get together and we work on building authentic Black men.

So we get over 100 Black men together every single Monday, the largest weekly gathering of Black men in the country, and just build.

>> Tobias: I have to come to one of those.

>> Mawuli: You coming, absolutely.

>> Tobias: I really want to connect with more Black lawyers, because I'm eager to know, and that goes into my next question, what it's like being a Black man in law?

>> Mawuli: That's a lot, that's a lot [CROSSTALK].

>> Tobias: [LAUGH] I know.

>> Mawuli: So let me unpack it.

>> Tobias: [LAUGH] Okay.

>> Mawuli: It's a great deal of responsibility.

Because, when somebody says, here's my problem, can you solve it?

And you say, I'll take your pain, I'll take your problem, I'll take what you've gone through, and I'll do my best to try to make it right.

>> Tobias: Yeah.

>> Mawuli: And so, you have to be ready for that, and be connected with the people who are coming to you and saying help me.

And I'm looking forward for you to experience that.

I want you to, down the road, we're going to have this conversation.

>> Tobias: I'm going to tell you.

>> Mawuli: When you get sworn in.

>> Tobias: Because right now, I'm really interested now in doing more legal internships.

>> Mawuli: We got them.

>> Tobias: Yeah.

>> Mawuli: We'd love for you to you know.

>> Tobias: That's what I was getting at.

That's what I was getting at.

>> Mawuli: Come on, spend some time with us.

You don't have to ease, let me tell you.

What you're doing, we want to affirm you as being the model verses what has become the new norm.

No, we want the new norm to be to be you.

>> Tobias: It was just amazing to have that conversation with him, someone that is in the field that looks like me, and he's telling me, well I have an opportunity for you and leave with a job, a job-ish, I left job-ish.

He set the standard high.

[MUSIC] [BUGLE PLAYING FANFARE] >> Destin: I study at the University of Kentucky.

I'm a doctoral candidate in the counseling psychology program.

I always say Kentucky is a great place to get a PhD, which is what I'm doing, or raise a family, I'm not doing that yet.

But I'm used to a city.

I'm from college park, so same place where Ludacris is from, same place where Outkast is from.

I really enjoy things related to culture, so Black culture appreciation, whether that be fashion, music, dance, and specifically what I'm studying for my dissertation related to names.

There's a lot of studies that are on Black names, but I want to understand Black naming practice as a standalone outside of discrimination piece.

I want to know about the joy and the experiences of having these names.

I do research, I want to highlight the joy of it, rather than resilience.

Resilience forefronts oppression, joy forefronts this idea of connection to others and ourselves.

But for me, it took a lot of unlearning to understand that or even adopt that view.

My graduate school experience has been challenging on the strength of I had to come to a different state during the pandemic and figure out life here.

And then it was like the anti-Blackness going on with the Breonna Taylor murder and all of those things.

That's literally an hour and 30 minutes away from where I am.

I'm in this apartment by myself and after classes, after therapy, all these meetings, I'm feeling weird.

I'm like, what's going on?

I don't have the mental health issues, that's not my thing.

And I think what being here during the pandemic had me do is reckon with myself in a lot of different ways.

I just felt I knew what the world was, what it should be, and that's definitely me leaning into patriarchy, masculinity.

But I think that a lot of my learning came honestly with the patience and gentleness to work under Black women and also a lot of the humility, but also curiosity that came on my own research.

I realized I don't know nothing, so I need to read now.

You know what I mean?

I need to talk to people.

I need to travel the world to really make sense of who I am, but also the world that's operating around me.

I want other Black men to go through what I had to go through that year.

Part of our work is actually seeing clients, working with them through their issues.

Right now, I have a caseload of about five clients, all Black men, which is a really powerful experience.

I wish I would have a therapist growing up that was a Black man that could have pushed me in a bunch of different directions.

I'm sure my dad, and my uncles, and brothers wish they also had that type of Black man in their life as well.

So I'm really ready to be stewarded in terms of learning and receiving knowledge.

So which is why I think this road trip will be dope, just to get in contact with and talk with leaders who are in my field and just can share a glimpse of knowledge, I'm excited for it.

>> [MUSIC] >> Destin: So today, we're going to speak to Anthony Moody.

He's a licensed professional counselor here based in Lexington, Kentucky.

So I'm really excited to speak with him about how he got to where he was at, some of the things that were difficult for him and just honestly soak up all the knowledge he's willing to share with me.

>> Anthony: I'm Anthony Moody, and I am a licensed professional counselor associate from the great city of Dayton, Ohio.

I work with a lot of different demographics, so primarily I like the 16 to 25 young Black men, that's where my heart is at.

>> Destin: What made you want to work with young Black men?

>> Anthony: Because I was one.

>> Destin: Yeah.

>> Anthony: And I remember how reckless I used to be and just not having somebody to talk to.

>> Destin: Yeah.

>> Anthony: So not having that mental and emotional support as I thought I should have had, so turn around and do that for the ones that may not have it, especially because we have some trauma and a target on our backs always no matter what we do.

So you got to be able to have someone to help you in your corner to navigate.

>> Destin: Yeah, and that's real, because I was thinking about the difficulty of me even being a clinician and trying to get a therapist.

I'm curious, what would be your response to a Black man who is like, you know what, I want to get therapy but I don't feel comfortable talking to no Black man.

>> Anthony: I actually just recently did that with a new client.

Did an intake a couple weeks ago, and he was like, man, I've been struggling.

My girlfriend said I should go talk to somebody.

>> Destin: Yeah.

>> Anthony: And I came in here, I didn't know what to expect but you don't look like a therapist, so I think it's cool.

>> Destin: [LAUGH] >> Anthony: I joke on my admin all the time, I need to make that my brand, because every day someone makes that comment.

>> Destin: Mhmm.

And/or they call you a unicorn, or it's like, I didn't know, I didn't know there's Black men in this space too, man, it's kind of cool.

But you could tell they're kind of just on edge, >> Destin: Yeah.

>> Anthony: kind of skeptical.

Trying to feel you out, so I kind of just try to create a safe space, like, you know what, man, you need somebody to talk to, we all do, man.

>> Destin: Yeah.

>> Anthony: You're not weak for talking.

You're actually weak because you don't talk.

>> Destin: Yep, talking gives you the strength because you got community with you once you talk.

>> Anthony: Exactly, I'm like, so knocking that stigma down is very vital, and that's something that I would love to do more research on because it's just not the norm.

>> Destin: I'm having a reaction.

I hear people keep telling you you don't look like a therapist.

I'm like, you definitely do, what does a therapist supposed to look like?

Did you ever feel because of those things you aren't worthy or you need to change something to fit people's idea on what a therapist should look like.

>> Anthony: Man, I ain't going to lie, I used to get offended at first.

I'm like, what do you mean?

>> Destin: Yeah.

>> Anthony: I had to kind of calm down, make sure my facial expression is cool.

Inside I'm livid.

>> Destin: [LAUGH] Right.

That's real though.

>> Anthony: I'm tired of hearing this.

>> Anthony: But I think my corporate experience as an accountant, talking about a cutthroat environment and having to be in a suit every day.

So not being able to authentically be myself >> Destin: Yeah.

>> Anthony: for so long in those spaces, you learn how to play the game.

In this space I'm like, I'm not trying to play that game anymore.

So balancing out like I know me, I know what I bring to the table.

I could throw on a three piece suit or I could be in my Nike Tech, it's still going to be the same me.

>> Destin: Substance still there.

>> Anthony: I have my earrings, I could wear my chains.

I'm still the same person.

So you trying to put me in this box, not realizing I could be the person to help you, because I was put in your life to be a vessel to help you get to wherever you need to get to, and you may not get there because of a stereotype.

>> Destin: Yeah.

>> Anthony: Or how you perceive me.

Even when I used to have the shortcut taper waves, now I got locs.

I tell you I'm going to be myself and do what I was trained to do, what I studied to do, and what I believe I'm called to do.

And I think everything starts and ends with your mindset.

So please prioritize your mental health, which includes emotional health so you can have a better quality of life and better interpersonal relationships.

>> Destin: Speaking with Mr. Moody was just a real dope experience.

It just felt a warm hug.

All the things he said what people were saying to him, I'm like, I get it.

I don't look like other therapists, and I don't want to.

While I may be one of the only ones in my program, I'm not alone because there are other Black men who are doing the work, who are in the tough spaces that are having very similar experiences and are navigating it well and are still the thriving.

And now I'm excited to go to DC, link back up with my brothers, I kind of miss them already.

I'm excited just to sit in the message of relinquishing the control and just simply enjoying the journey and see what it's like to be in DC.

>>Enoch: We're three black men pursuing our dreams in higher education.

We're going to be taking a road trip to speak with other black men who successfully navigated their higher educational journeys.

>>Tobias: What we've seen on this road trip is what needs to be in communities more we can have black lawyers, we can have black astrophysicists.

>>Ronald: There were instances where people were trying to challenge my abilities.

I had to be not better, but I had to be like stellar.

I had to be top notch.

You got to press on.

You've got to move on.

Even if you don't see the example, you can be the example.

>>Narrator: Wondering what to do with your life?

Well we've been there and we're here to help Our website has some awesome tools to help you find your path And you can check out all our documentaries, interviews and more Start exploring at roadtripnation.com