>>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL P. ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

♪ >>"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, AND THE DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

♪ >>> GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

OUR FRONT PAGE FORECAST IS BACK TONIGHT.

WE BEGIN OUR WEEKLY LOOK AHEAD AT THE NATIONAL AND LOCAL HEADLINES AND THEIR POTENTIAL IMPACT ON THE TRI-STATE.

WE'LL START WITH THE MURDER TRIAL OF DEREK CHAUVIN.

NOW, JUST YESTERDAY THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE CHIEF CONDEMNED CHAUVIN'S ACTIONS AGAINST GEORGE FLOYD.

THE CHIEF SAID CHAUVIN VIOLATED DEPARTMENT POLICY WHEN HE PINNED FLOYD'S NECK BENEATH HIS KNEE FOR MORE THAN 9 MINUTES.

WHAT IMPACT DOES THIS TESTIMONY HAVE ON THE TRIAL, AND WHAT CAN HAPPEN IF CHAUVIN IS ULTIMATELY ACQUITTED?

WE'LL ALSO DISCUSS THE LATEST ON WHAT'S BEING DONE TO COMBAT ANTI-ASIAN ATTACKS, THIS AFTER A MAN REPORTEDLY SPAT ON A WOMAN AND HER THREE CHILDREN ON THE SUBWAY AND A CONVENIENCE STORE WORKER WAS PUNCHED IN MIDTOWN MANHATTAN.

JOINING US TO DISCUSS THESE HEADLINES ARE JOSEPH PINION.

JOSEPH IS CHAIR OF THE CONSERVATIVE COLOR COALITION AND HOST OF "SATURDAY AGENDA".

WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> WE ALSO SANTITA JACKSON, HOST OF THE SANTITA JACKSON SHOW AND DAUGHTER OF CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER AND THE REVEREND JESSE JACKSON AND OF COURSE MRS. JACKSON.

>> HOW ARE YOU?

IT'S WONDERFUL TO BE HERE.

>> SO GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON AGAIN.

AND WE HAVE OUR FIRST TIME ROUNDTABLE GUEST BUT CERTAINLY NOT A FIRST-TIME GUEST ON "METROFOCUS."

CHRIS KWOK.

CHRIS IS A BOARD MEMBER OF THE ASIAN AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION OF NEW YORK.

WELCOME TO THE ROUNDTABLE.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> FIRST OFF, I'D LIKE TO START WITH YOU, SANTITA, AND TALKING ABOUT THE CHAUVIN TRIAL.

OF COURSE, WHAT WE HEARD FROM THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE CHIEF TO A LOT OF EARS COULD BE SURPRISING, BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE HAVE SAID THAT THE THIN BLUE LINE HAS BROKEN WITH HIS CRITICISM OF CHAUVIN'S BEHAVIOR.

>> THAT WOULD BE A VERY GOOD THING.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ONCE AGAIN, JENNA.

IT'S WONDERFUL TO BE ON THE PANEL WITH ALL OF YOU.

MY RADIO SHOW IS SYNDICATED AND ONE OF THE MARKETS I FIND MYSELF IN IS MINNEAPOLIS/ST.

PAUL AT A PROGRESSIVE RADIO STATION THERE.

I'VE GOTTEN A CHANCE TO TALK WITH LEADERS AND PEOPLE ON THE GROUND MANY MINNEAPOLIS, AND MANY OF THEM ARE NOT EXPECTING MUCH.

THEY'RE HOPING FOR A CONVICTION.

THEY'RE HOPING THAT THEIR EYES DID NOT LIE TO THEM AND WHAT THEY SAW WAS WHAT THEY SAW.

THEY'RE HOPING TO SEE JUSTICE CARRIED OUT.

THEY'RE VERY PLEASED TO SEE THAT THE POLICE CHIEF STOOD UP AND SAID, LOOK, WHICH IS NOT WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, BUT DEREK CHAUVIN WAS AT LEAST BROUGHT UP ON DISCIPLINARY CHARGES 18 TIMES, SIX OF THOSE TIMES WERE FOR CHOKING SOMEONE WHO WENT INTO HIS CUSTODY.

NOW, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WERE ARRESTED OR NOT, BECAUSE WE STILL DO NOT KNOW.

MY BROTHER POINTED OUT TO ME, DO YOU KNOW GEORGE FLOYD DIED NOT KNOWING WHAT HE WAS CHARGED WITH?

THINK ABOUT THAT.

HE WAS BROUGHT INTO CUSTODY.

WAS HE FORMALLY ARRESTED?

THINK ABOUT THAT.

HE'S DEAD NOW.

WHILE WE HEAR ABOUT THE POLICIES -- AND I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THE POLICE CHIEF, WHO DID CROSS THE LINE, SAVING REALLY HIS DEPARTMENT AND REALLY TRYING TO SAVE THE INTEGRITY OF POLICING ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

IT'S ONE THING TO HAVE POLICIES THAT ARE ENCODED, IT'S ONE THING TO HAVE THEM ON PAPER.

IT'S ANOTHER THING, AS WE SEE DEFENSE COUNSEL POINT OUT, TO SEE HOW THESE ACTIONS ARE PRACTICED.

THE QUESTION THAT THE DEFENSE COUNSEL KEPT GOING BACK TO WAS, WITH ALL OF THE OTHER POLICE OFFICERS THEY SAID, YOU BASICALLY HAVE A DESK JOB, DON'T YOU?

YOU'RE NOT OUT ON THE STREETS.

WHEN YOU'RE OUT ON THE STREETS, WE HAVE TO DO THIS A DIFFERENT WAY.

DEREK CHAUVIN HAS TO CHOKE SIX PEOPLE, PRESSING ONE PERSON IN APRIL OF 2016 IN THE LINGUAL ARTERY.

WHO DOES THAT?

HOW IS IT THAT YOU HAVE A SYSTEM THAT WOULD ALLOW SOMEONE LIKE THAT TO ALLOW TO CONTINUE TO BE OUT AMONGST THE PEOPLE.

SO WHILE I SEE THESE WELL-MEANING OFFICERS AND THE HIGHEST EXECUTIVES IN THE DEPARTMENT SAYING, THIS IS NOT THE WAY WE OUGHT TO DO THINGS, STILL, MINNEAPOLIS IS THE FOURTH WORST PLACE IN THE UNITED STATES FOR BLACK PEOPLE TO LIVE.

SO WHAT OUGHT TO HAPPEN AND WHAT IS HAPPENING, THERE IS A HUGE DISCONNECT.

AND CERTAINLY WE NEED TO HAVE THAT CLOSED IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE JUSTICE.

I THINK THAT THIS NEW GENERATION OF YOUNG PEOPLE, THEY'RE NOT LIKE MY GENERATION.

THEY DON'T COME FROM A CHURCH-BASED MOVEMENT.

THEY'RE COMING FROM ANOTHER PLACE.

THAT'S NOT A JUDGMENT.

THAT IS JUST A CHARACTERIZATION.

THEY'VE HAD A BLACK PRESIDENT, A BLACK VICE PRESIDENT.

THEY'VE HAD BLACK PEOPLE REPRESENTING THEM.

THEY'VE HAD A RAINBOW, IF YOU WILL, REPRESENTING THEM AT ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT AND SUBSTANTIALLY THEIR LIVES HAVE NOT CHANGED, PARTICULARLY THE POLICING.

THIS WAS A 17-YEAR-OLD GIRL WHO TOOK OUT HER PHONE AND STARTED RECORDING THIS ALONG WITH WHITE KIDS, WHITE YOUNG PEOPLE.

IT'S A RAINBOW OUT THERE.

THERE'S SOMETHING THAT'S HAPPENING ON THE GROUND WITH POLICE AND THE PEOPLE THAT WAS BEING MISSED IN THAT TESTIMONY YESTERDAY, AS MUCH AS I APPRECIATED WHAT THE POLICE CHIEF SAID.

>> JOSEPH, I'D LOVE TO GET YOUR TAKE ON WHAT WE HEARD FROM THE POLICE CHIEF.

I MEAN, THAT SEEMED TO STAND OUT AT LEAST THAT THE POLICE CHIEF WAS SAYING, ACTUALLY, NO, THIS FORMER OFFICER WAS COMPLETELY OUT OF LINE.

>> TO SANTITA'S POINT, IT'S HEARTENING NOT TO HAVE SOMEONE IN A POSITION OF POWER WHO'S RUNNING THE DEPARTMENT SAYING THIS IS NOT IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE TEACHINGS OF THIS DEPARTMENT.

THIS IS NOT IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE ETHICS OF OUR DEPARTMENT.

BUT I THINK MY FATHER TAUGHT ME AT A VERY YOUNG AGE, THERE'S A WORLD AS IT IS ON PAPER AND THEN THERE'S A WORLD AS IT REALLY IS.

I THINK ON SOME BASIC LEVEL WHEN WE SIT HERE TRYING TO GO THROUGH THIS, THE QUESTION FOR ME HAS ALWAYS BECOME WHO LOOKS AT WHAT DEREK CHAUVIN DID IN THOSE 9 MINUTES AND SAYS THAT'S GOOD POLICE WORK, THAT THAT IS THE ESSENCE OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE ONE OF THE GOOD COPS.

AND I THINK THE MOST ALARMING THING FOR ME IS NOT THAT THIS CHIEF CAME FORWARD, BUT THE FACT THAT THE DEFENSE FELT VERY COMFORTABLE RAISING THE ACTIONS OF DEREK CHAUVIN AS PAR FOR THE COURSE, THAT THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT COMFORTABLE ENOUGH TO GET ON TELEVISION AND SAY THAT WHAT DEREK CHAUVIN DID IS ACCEPTABLE POLICE WORK.

WE SFPOKE ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BT A WEEK AGO, BUT I THINK WE ARE QUICKLY GETTING TO THAT POINT WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT WHO HAS THE MORAL RESPONSIBILITY TO TRY TO ENSURE THAT WHAT HAPPENED TO GEORGE FLOYD DOES NOT EVER HAPPEN AGAIN?

BECAUSE WHEN YOU HAVE THE POLICE CHIEF SAYING THAT THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, ALL WHILE THE DEFENSE FOR DEREK CHAUVIN, WHICH IS PERHAPS EXPECTED SAYING, NO, THIS IS WHAT WE'VE TAUGHT, BUT THEN YOU LISTEN TO OTHER PEOPLE IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, A, CRITICIZING THE CHIEF FOR THROWING ONE OF HIS OWN UNDER THE BUS.

IT APPEARS THAT IF YOU THINK HE'S THROWN ONE OF HIS OWN UNDER THE BUS, THEN YOU'RE ALSO INFERRING THAT WHAT DEREK CHAUVIN DID WAS ACCEPTABLE, THAT YOU WOULD ALSO STAND BY IF ONE OF YOUR FELLOW OFFICERS DID WHAT DEREK CHAUVIN DID TO GEORGE FLOYD.

AND SO WE ARE PRECIPITOUSLY HEADING TOWARDS THIS NOTION OF LAWLESSNESS, THAT EVERYONE WILL HAVE TO BE FORCED TO TAKE THE LAW INTO THEIR OWN HANDS IF LAW ENFORCEMENT AMONGST THEMSELVES CAN'T EVEN ARRIVE AT THE CONCLUSION TO SAY UNEQUIVOCALLY THAT WHAT HAPPENED TO GEORGE FLOYD IS A BASTARDIZATION OF POLICE WORK, IS AN EMBARRASSMENT TO ANYONE WHO WEARS THE BADGE AND WHAT DEREK CHAUVIN DMID IN THAT MOMENT, HE WAS NO LONGER A POLICE OFFICER.

HE WAS A MADMAN INTENT ON MAIMING ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.

IF WE CAN ARRIVE AT T-- CAN'T ARRIVE AT THAT CONCLUSION, THEN THE MORALS OF POLICING ALL ACROSS THIS COUNTRY IS BANKRUPT.

YOU THINK WE HAVE A WAR AGAINST POLICE NOW, YOU THINK WE HAVE FAULT LINES AGAINST POLICE NOW.

YOU HAVEN'T SEEN FAULT LINES.

THIS WILL MAKE THE NEWARK RIOTS LOOK LIKE A FIREWORKS SHOW ON YOUR LOCAL CORNER.

PEOPLE NO LONGER WANT TO HEAR THESE THINGS, BECAUSE WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE ARC OF THE UNIVERSE BEING LONG AND BENDING TOWARD JUSTICE, BUT FOR THIS GENERATION OF PEOPLE OF COLOR, THE QUANTUM LEAP THAT PEOPLE THAT PRECEDED US HAVE SEEN IN THEIR LIFETIMES HAS NOT BEEN ACHIEVED.

YOU CAN POINT TO ALL THE COSMETIC VICTORIES THAT WE HAVE ACHIEVED ALONG THE WAY, NOT THAT THEY'RE NOT SIGNIFICANT, BUT WHAT HAVE THOSE COSMETIC OUTCOMES YIELDED IN THE LIVES OF E EVERYDAY PEOPLE?

I WOULD SUBMIT THAT IS NOT A WHOLE LOT.

>> AGAIN, WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT THIS DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LEGALITY AND MORALITY.

DID WE SEE THAT WITH THE POLICE CHIEF?

WAS HE ACTUALLY MAKING THAT BREAK AS WELL?

>> HE WAS.

HE HAD FORMERLY SUED OR MADE A COMPLAINT ABOUT EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THE POLICE CHIEF AND THEN HE BECAME CHIEF.

IT WAS GOOD TO HEAR THAT THAT HE WAS MAKING A STAND AT LAST, THAT IT TAKES AMERICA THIS LONG TO BE LIKE THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO AND LET ME JUST SAY THAT.

LIKE, THAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED A LONG TIME AGO.

ALTHOUGH WE CELEBRATE THAT VICTORY, YOU KNOW, WE ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT TOOK WAY TOO LONG.

IF I MIGHT JUST ADD ONE THING -- >> OF COURSE.

>> THE DISPARITY OF THE TECHNOLOGY THAT WE HAVE HAS MADE THE MORAL PROBLEM MORE CLEAR THAN EVER.

WHEN THEY USE ATTACK DOGS ON PROTESTERS IN THE SOUTH IN THE '60s, THAT SET PEOPLE AFLAME.

THEY SET DOGS ON PEOPLE JUST TRYING TO LEAD A NORMAL LIFE.

WE SAW THE BEATING IN L.A.

IN '91 OF RODNEY KING.

THAT SET PEOPLE AFLAME.

BUT THIS WAS DIFFERENT BECAUSE EVERYONE HAS A HIGH DEFINITION CAMERA IN THEIR POCKETS AND WE WATCHED A MAN DIE IN REALTIME AND IT REACHED PEOPLE'S HEARTS FOR THE FIRST TIME.

I THINK THAT'S THE CLARITY OF THE MORAL PROBLEM WE HAVE NOW.

WE HAD THAT VIDEO AND THEN WE HAD IT GO INSTANTLY VIRAL.

THAT'S NOT PANOTHER PROBLEM FOR BECAUSE I FOUND IT HARD TO WATCH THIS VIDEO.

WE NEED TO SEE THIS BECAUSE THIS IS AMERICA.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WHY AM I SEEING THIS?

THIS IS HORRIFIC.

IT WAS THE SOLUTION AND THE PROBLEM AT THE SAME TIME.

I THINK WHAT BOUND ALL THE WHITE KIDS, ALL THE BLACK PEOPLE STANDING THERE WATCHING IT IN REALTIME WAS THAT SHOCK ON THEIR FACE.

WE NORMALLY MISS THAT SHOCK, BUT THEY WERE RECORDING THE TRUTH FOR NUSUS IN HIGH DEFINITION.

I THINK FOR THE FIRST TIME IN AMERICAN SOCIETY, WE WATCHED THE INHUMANITY OF HOW WE TREAT BLACK LIFE IN FULL DEFINITION, IN HIGH DEFINITION IN REALTIME.

I THINK THAT HAS REALLY HELPED SET THE TABLE FOR THE PERIOD WE ARE IN NOW.

>> IF I COULD ADD ONE MORE THING.

>> OF COURSE.

>> JOSEPH SPOKE ABOUT THE COSMETIC VICTORIES, AND YOU'RE RIGHT.

CHRIS, YOU'RE SPEAKING TO SOME PHILOSOPHICAL.

EVEN AS I HEAR PEOPLE NOW REFER TO REVEREND JACKSON'S PRESIDENTIAL RUNS, WHICH HAPPENED ABOUT 40 YEARS AGO NOW, WHILE HE WAS CRASHING THE COLOR BARRIER, HE WAS ALSO CRASHING THE PHILOSOPHICAL BARRIER.

I THINK THAT WE'VE GOT TO REALLY LOOK TO DO THAT.

THE ARC OF THE MORAL UNIVERSE REALLY DOES BEND TOWARD JUSTICE.

NOW, ARE WE GOING TO FOLLOW THAT, OR ARE WE GOING TO BE IN THIS HOUSE ON FIRE THAT DR. KING FEARED THAT HE WAS BRINGING US INTO?

WE HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION ABOUT WHO WE'RE REALLY GOING TO BE.

ARE WE GOING TO BE A COUNTRY THAT EMBRACES EVERYBODY?

ARE WE GOING TO BECOME THIS BELOVED COMMUNITY?

OR ARE WE GOING TO TOLERATE A SNUFF FILM?

WHICH CLEARLY HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, WHICH IS WHY ALL THOSE PEOPLE BROUGHT OUT THEIR CAMERAS.

I DIDN'T REALIZE SO MANY PEOPLE WERE FILMING THIS INCIDENT.

YOU KNOW, IT'S ONLY KNOW THAT WE SEE, OH MY GOSH, PEOPLE PULLED OUT THESE CAMERAS BECAUSE SOMETHING IN THEIR EXPERIENCES SAID WE NEED TO MAKE A RECORD OF THIS, BECAUSE THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE.

AND MAYBE THIS TIME, LIKE EMMETT TILL ALMOST 70 YEARS AGO, MAYBE NO MORE.

>> LET ME ADD ONTO THAT POINT.

>> ABSOLUTELY, JOSEPH.

>> IF YOU REALLY TALK ABOUT YOUR POINT ABOUT YOUR FATHER'S RUN, YES, IT WAS THIS PHILOSOPHICAL BARRIER, BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW DO WE ESTABLISH A FRAMEWORK WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU DON'T GET A PRESIDENT OBAMA WITHOUT A JESSE JACKSON CAMPAIGN FOR PRESIDENCY REGISTERING 8 MILLION NEW VOTERS, THE FACT THAT WHEN WE SIT HERE AND TALK ABOUT THIS, PEOPLE GET FRUSTRATED WITH ME.

I SAY, LOOK, THE ISSUE OF TRYING TO FIND OUT HOW WE GET JUSTICE FOR GEORGE FLOYD IS NOT ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE EVEN IF IT'S INHERENTLY PART OF THE LAYERED EXPERIENCE OF BLACK PEOPLE.

BECAUSE WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO SAY IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED TO GEORGE FLOYD SHOULD NOT HAPPEN NO ANYONE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> PERIOD.

SO ON SOME BASIC LEVEL I UNDERSTAND IT BECOMES VERY DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO SEPARATE THE TWO, THAT WE ARE SO FRUSTRATED BY THE LONG TAIL ON OUR ABILITY TO CONFRONT RACIAL INJUSTICE IN THIS COUNTRY, THAT TO TRY TO SEPARATE THE RACIAL COMPONENT OF WHAT HAPPENED TO GEORGE FLOYD ALMOST SEEMS LIKE A PE BETRAYAL OF NOT JUST GEORGE FLOYD BUT OF ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN VICTIMIZED.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HOW DO YOU BUILD THAT FRAMEWORK, HOW DO YOU GET THE MILLION PEOPLE REGISTERED THAT LEADS TO THE LONG VICTORY, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY IS NOT ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING TO BLACK PEOPLE.

WE'RE SIMPLY SAYING, IF WE CAN'T ESTABLISH A BASELINE IN AMERICA TO SAY THAT WHAT DEREK CHAUVIN DID TO A PERSON IN HIS CUSTODY WITH A BADGE THAT GAVE HIM CERTAIN POWERS NO ONE ELSE HAS, IF WE CAN'T ESTABLISH THAT IS WRONG, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THE PERSON UNDER HIS KNEE WAS A BLACK PERSON, AN ASIAN PERSON, A NATIVE AMERICAN, IF WE CAN'T SAY FOR THE RECORD THIS IS WRONG, THEN THIS SOCIETY IS MORALLY BANKRUPT.

I THINK THAT I WISH WE WERE HAVING THE CONVERSATION THROUGH THAT PRISM AS DIFFICULT AS THAT MAY BE, AS PAINFUL AS THAT MAY BE, BECAUSE AT THE HEART OF IT THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

WE CAN'T ACTUALLY HAVE THE CONVERSATION ABOUT FIXING THE RACIAL COMPONENTS OF SOCIETY UNTIL WE CAN ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO BE ENTITLED TO AS HUMAN BEINGS LIVING THIS SHARED SPIRITUAL JOURNEY TOGETHER?

>> WHEN JESSE JACKSON RAN, I WAS IN FOURTH GRADE.

I WAS A PRECOCIOUS CHILD.

I WAS READING THE NEWSPAPERS.

THE FEEL AS I WAS READING IT WAS, OH, THAT'S NICE, THERE'S A BLACK GUY RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.

IT WASN'T SERIOUS.

BUT WHAT WE DIDN'T KNOW WAS THAT HE WAS PLANTING THESE SEEDS THAT WOULD COME OUT SEVERAL DECADES LATER AND WE WOULD HAVE OBAMA AS OUR PRESIDENT.

AT THE SAME TIME HE WAS IN THE RAINBOW COALITION, HE REACHED OUT TO THE ASIAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY, HE WENT TO SAN FRANCISCO.

THERE WAS A MURDER OF A CHINESE-AMERICAN MAN IN DETROIT, AN ANTI-JAPANESE SENTIMENT.

THEY THOUGHT HE WAS JAPANESE AND BEAT HIM TO DEATH WITH THE BAT.

THE KILLERS GOT PROBATION AND A FINE.

JESSE JACKSON MET WITH THE ACTIVISTS AND SAID YOU, BY THE WAY, ARE PART OF THIS RAINBOW COALITION.

THAT REALLY LIFTED THAT ASIAN AMERICAN MOVEMENT.

IT DIDN'T LIFT IT INTO FULL BLOOM, BUT IT PLANTED THAT SEED BACK IN '84.

>> THEY RAN OUR CAMPAIGN.

WE GOT TO CALIFORNIA AND SAID, WAIT A MINUTE, PEOPLE ARE REALLY RUNNING THE CALIFORNIA CAMPAIGN THE COMPANY OUT WEST, IT'S THE ASIAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

I THINK WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE HERE, BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY CLASSISM WAS RACIALIZED IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT, THAT WHITE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SHORTCHANGED IN AMERICA.

EVERYBODY'S BEEN SHORTCHANGED IN AMERICA.

IT'S A BLUE LINE, NOT A WHITE LINE, NOT A BLACK LINE, NOT A YELLOW, NOT A RED ONE.

IT'S A BLUE LINE.

WHEN PEOPLE GET INTO THESE POSITIONS, WHATEVER POSITION THEY GET INTO, THEY ASSUME THE CULTURE AND THE CULTURE ITSELF HAS TO CHANGE.

NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH WHAT THIS MAN WENT THROUGH.

>> SO MUCH MORE THAT WE COULD ADD TO THIS CONVERSATION AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO, ESPECIALLY ON THESE ROUNDTABLES.

CHRIS HAD THE PERFECT SEGUE TO THIS ONGOING ISSUE, THIS ESCALATION OF ANTI-ASIAN CRIME THAT WE'RE SEEING AND WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT.

SO, CHRIS, AGAIN, I JUST WANTED YOU TO SORT OF, I GUESS, PERHAPS FILL US IN ON WHAT ARE SOME OF THE PRELIMINARY STEPS THAT AT LEAST YOU SEE NEEDING TO BE TAKEN TO BEGIN TO ADDRESS THIS.

>> I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S SO DEEP, BECAUSE IT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.

IT'S THE ESSENCE OF ONE PART OF AMERICA THAT IS ITS WORST PART.

THAT'S WHY YOU CAN'T STOP IT.

WHAT'S THE GROUP, WHAT'S THE PEOPLE?

THERE'S NOT LIKE ONE THING YOU CAN STOP TO STOP IT.

IT'S LIKE THIS IDEA OF AMERICA AND WHITE SUPREMACY THAT THIS COUNTRY WAS MADE FOR ONLY WHITE PEOPLE AND THE REACTIONS AND THE WAVES OF ANTI-CHINA SENTIMENT, NATIVISM IS MOVING PEOPLE TO ACTION, BECAUSE WE ARE SUFFERING AS A COUNTRY BECAUSE OF COVID-19.

THERE IS GREAT SUFFERING IN THIS COUNTRY PABECAUSE OF OUR LACK O SOCIAL SAFETY WELFARE NETS.

IF YOU'RE NOT RICH, WE DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU.

YOU'RE A FRONT LINE WORKER.

GO DELIVER FOOD, GO DO THIS.

THE ANSWERS ARE LONG-TERM, BUT FOR ASIAN AMERICANS THE NEED IS IMMEDIATE.

WE THINK THERE MIGHT BE A ROLE FOR PROSECUTION PARTICULARLY IF PEOPLE ARE BEING HURT OR KILLED, BUT THE ANSWER IS LONGER TERM.

NYPD HAS PUT OUT LIKE DECOYS.

I'M LIKE OKAY, I DON'T KNOW, THERE ARE SAFE ZONES.

I AM REACHING FOR THE SOLUTIONS AS WELL.

BUT I THINK THE ANSWER IS LONG-TERM IN THE BOOKS BEHIND ME.

LIKE WE NEED TO LEARN WHERE WE COME FROM, WE NEED TO LEARN ABOUT WHO WE WANT TO BE.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT SOUNDS TOO PIE IN THE SKY AS AN ANSWER TO PEOPLE WHO ARE FEELING UNSAFE.

MY WIFE AND FRIENDS DON'T FEEL LIKE THAT'S AN IMMEDIATE ANSWER, BUT THAT'S MY ANSWER FOR NOW BECAUSE IT'S THE MOST LONG-TERM.

YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW.

>> JOSEPH, YOU'VE ALWAYS GOT YOUR FINGER ON THE PULSE.

I'D LIKE TO GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON HOW WE BEGIN TO ADDRESS THIS -- I DON'T WANT TO CALL IT A NEW WAVE OF HATE CRIME, BECAUSE IT'S CERTAINLY NOT, BUT THIS INCREASE IN ATTACKS AGAINST PEOPLE WHO PRESENT SPECIFICALLY AS EAST ASIANS IN AMERICA.

>> I THINK WE AS A SOCIETY HAVE BECOME ADDICTED TO LAYING OUR BURDENS DOWN AT THE FEET OF SOMEBODY ELSE.

WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS THAT WE HAVE COME TO THIS CONCLUSION THAT THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR USHERING IN THESE ATROCITIES IS SOMEBODY ELSE.

LET'S BE VERY CLEAR.

WE TALK ABOUT THE RISE IN ANTI-ASIAN VIOLENCE IN NEW YORK CITY.

THE PEOPLE WHO ARE COMMITTING THESE CRIMES ARE NOT MAGA HAT WEARING TRUMPERS.

WE'RE DEALING WITH IN MANY WAYS THIS MARCH AND THIS FRICTION THAT WE'VE HAD WITHIN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, BETWEEN MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

NOT TO GET TOO INTO THE ARTS.

YOU CAN EVEN GO BACK TO SPIKE LEE "DO THE RIGHT THING."

THAT IS ART IMITATING LIFE.

WE'VE SEEN FRICTION BETWEEN BLACK COMMUNITIES, ASIAN COMMUNITIES.

WE'VE SEEN THIS FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

SO I THINK, TO MY COLLEAGUE'S POINT, YES, IT'S ABOUT LEARNING OUR HISTORY, BUT THAT HISTORY CANNOT BE ABOUT WHAT AMERICA HAS JUST DONE TO US.

IT ALSO HAS TO BE ABOUT WHAT WE HAVE DONE TO ONE ANOTHER.

THOSE ARE THE STORIES THAT INEVITABLY AREN'T ALWAYS WHAT HAPPENS ON 125th IS NOT IN THE TEXTBOOK, WHAT HAPPENS AT THE HAIR SALON ISN'T IN THE TEXTBOOK, WHAT HAPPENS AT THE CHINESE FOOD RESTAURANT IS NOT IN THE TEXTBOOK.

THOSE ARE OUR LIVED EXPERIENCES THAT WE SHOVE DOWN BECAUSE IT'S EASIER TO SAY THAT IT'S THE FAULT OF THESE REPUBLICANS OVER HERE OR IT'S THE FAULT OF THESE WHITE SUPREMACISTS OVER HERE, WHEN IN ALL ACTUALITY, YES, THOSE ARE PROBLEMS THAT WE NEED TO DEAL WITH.

WHITE SUPREMACY IS A REAL THING, BUT IT'S NOT WHITE SUPREMACISTS IN HARLEM BEATING UP ASIAN PEOPLE.

IT'S NOT WHITE SUPREMACISTS IN EAST NEW YORK SPITTING ON PEOPLE IN SUBWAYS.

THAT'S NOT THE THREAT THAT WE'RE HAVING HERE.

UNTIL WE'RE ABLE TO CONFRONT THE EVIL THAT LURKS WITHIN OUR OWN COMMUNITIES, THE BIAS THAT LURKS WITHIN OUR OWN HEARTS AND HAVE THAT CONVERSATION, IN THE SAME WAY THAT IF I'M GOING TO SIT HERE AND TALK TO OUR BROTHERS IN BLUE AND SAY YOU HAVE TO CAST OUT THE DEREK CHAUVINS IN YOUR PRESENCE, WHEN YOU ALSO HAVE TO BE WILLING TO CAST OUT YOUR COUSINS, YOUR FRIEND, ALL OF THESE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE SAID THE THINGS IN PRIVATE, WHO HAVE SAID THE THINGS IN YOUR PRESENCE THAT THESE PEOPLE JUST HAPPEN TO GET CAUGHT ON CAMERA.

>> SANTITA?

>> I THINK IT'S VERY INTERESTING.

I THINK THAT INSTEAD OF BEING AT EACH OTHER'S THROATS, WE HAVE TO LEARN TO HAVE EACH OTHER'S BACKS.

IT WAS THE CALIFORNIA STATE SUPREME COURT THAT MADE IT ILLEGAL FOR A CHINESE-AMERICAN TO BE ABLE TO TESTIFY AGAINST A WHITE PERSON.

THAT'S REAL.

YELLOW PERIL IS REAL AND IT HAS COURSED THROUGHOUT OUR HISTORY.

WHILE WE CERTAINLY NEED TO CONFRONT THAT WHICH IS IN OUR OWN COMMUNITIES THAT NEEDS TO BE CAST OUT, WE DON'T NEED TO CAST PEOPLE OUT.

WE NEED TO CAST OUR PROBLEMS OUT, BECAUSE IN OUR OWN WAY WE'RE ALL RESPONDING TO WHITE SUPREMACY, WHICH IS REALLY A PERVERSION OF THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE, BECAUSE THERE IS NO PEOPLE WHO IS THREE-FIFTHS HUMAN, THERE'S NO PEOPLE WHO IS SEVEN-FIFTHS HUMAN.

WE'RE ALL FULLY HUMAN.

WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHY EUROPEANS ESCAPED TO THE AMERICAS.

WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED TO THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE WHO WERE WIPED OUT, 90% OF THEM, THIS IS THEIR HOME.

I THINK WE NEED TO TELL THE FULL HISTORY AND REALLY BEGIN TO EMBRACE OUR HUMANITY.

THE WAY WE DO THAT IS BY TELLING THE STORIES.

MANY PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW WHAT CHINESE-AMERICANS WENT THROUGH IN MISSISSIPPI.

YOU GET TO MISSISSIPPI AND YOU MEET CHINESE-AMERICANS AND YOU'RE SHOCKED.

THEN THEY TELL YOU WHAT THEIR FAMILIES WENT THROUGH BUILDING THE RAILROADS AND HOW THEY HAD TO RESIST WHITE SUPREMACY AND THE KKK.

WE DID NOT GO AND ROUND UP GE GERMAN-AMERICANS DURING WORLD.

WE ROUNDED UP JAPANESE-AMERICANS.

WE DID NOT DROP BOMBS ON THE GERMANS.

WE DROPPED THEM ON THE JAPANESE.

SOMEHOW YELLOW LIVES MATTER LESS THAN WHITE LIVES.

WE HAVE TO THE DEAL WITH OUR RESPONSE TO IT BY OTHERIZING EACH OTHER.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE ALL UNDER THE BOOT.

MOST AMERICANS AND MOST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY, ENOUGH FOOD, ENOUGH OPPORTUNITY.

THAT IS NOT OUR FAULT.

THAT IS THE FAULT OF THE 1% WHO HAVE THEIR FOOT, THEIR KNEE IF YOU WILL ON OUR NECKS, GRINDING OUT OPPORTUNITY, MONEY, FAIR HOUSING AND ON AND ON AND ON.

WE HAVE TO BE GROWN ENOUGH, MATURE ENOUGH TO CONFRONT THAT.

>> UNFORTUNATELY THAT IS ALL THE TIME THAT WE HAVE.

OF COURSE, WE WILL CONTINUE THESE INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT CONVERSATIONS.

I'D LIKE TO THANK OUR ROUNDTABLE PANELISTS, JOSEPH PINION, SANTITA JACKSON, CHRIS KWOK, THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME.

♪ >>"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, AND THE DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

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