First of all, I think that very few businessmen and successful businessmen are successful politicians because these are, it's very different.

I mean, the idea that businesses and politics are the same, or that you can apply the rules of business to politics.

And so, I might have a different view about that.

I think that basically being, very rich or a billionaire doesn't help to be a politician.

People want to see people like them.

[music] Hi!

Hello, Alex.

-Nice to see you.

-You as well.

I'm very happy to have you here.

Thank you.

It's a very special building.

Now you are the president of the council, -the municipal council?

-Yes.

But you go by, Mr.

Mayor?

Yeah, mayor is good.

I like it, mayor.

And then, like, it's really an honor to be the mayor of this city because it's a very unique city.

As you know, it's a city that is a very old city.

It's a city that was born 1,200 years before Christ.

So, and, the town hall is here for a long, long time.

From, like 1870, this building.

So it's probably one of the oldest buildings of the town and one of the oldest in terms of institutions in the city.

And so it's an honor, it's a really unique, unique building.

And, as you know, this was where the, the Portuguese, became or the Portuguese people turned from a monarchy to a republic.

So everything happened here.

This is an exciting building to represent.

Like you said, the birth of the Republic -Yes.

-in Portugal.

And at the same time, it's quite regal.

Yeah.

And, so it personifies a certain kind of republicanism.

-What?

-Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

No, it is, it is because, it's about really, the city, and about what this city's about.

And so the room where the Republic was created, proclaimed, as we say, was exactly here, in this room on the 5th of October, 1910.

So, this is the room, it's a very important room because here on the fifth of October 1910, the Republicans came and they basically proclaimed that the country was a republic and not a monarchy anymore.

And, there's an amazing story because they got there.

They proclaimed the Republic.

There was a meeting being held here.

But then there was no photographer because in 1910, the photographer, there's just one photographer, a guy called Joshua Benoliel, and he was not in town, so he had to travel.

He was like, in the north.

And so he came like, like 5 hours or 6 hours later.

And so they had to do the pictures later on.

So most of the pictures, they are basically from the side because there was nobody anymore on the square.

So, in the beginning, like there was a lot of people cheering and everything, but like 5 or 6 hours later there was no one there.

So they had to take the pictures from the side, on the balcony.

I'll show you that.

But so these room is, this room is very special because I think it represents, a lot of our past, but also because a lot of the people that you see up there in the portraits, a lot of them are people from science, people from education.

And really show what this country's about, which was a country where basically for centuries, Muslims, Jews, Christians lived together.

So you have people like Pedro Nunes, was up there was, probably the biggest mathematician of all times, and he was a Jewish person.

He became this huge mathematician and invented, a machine called a Nónio because it was like Pedro's Nónios, Pedro Nunes in Portuguese.

And so he invented his, machine for navigation, called the Nónio.

And, that was, a huge step for humanity.

And I think that Lisbon always represented that openness of religions working together, of people being tolerant to each other, of people being open to each other.

And so I think that, in the days that we're living now is even more important that DNA of the city of, tolerance, moderation and that, people work together, with different ideas and different religions is very important.

So I think that this room also represents that, diversity and there's differences that must be a strength and not a problem.

Right?

And so I love this room.

We held here a lot of conferences.

We, actually, called the citizens to come here to have, like, citizens assemblies where they look at what they can do for the city.

The year when the photographer came a little bit late.

-Yes.

-What year was that?

So that was the fifth of October 1910.

1910.

Which was the day of the Republic.

And is that where you trace your democratic origin, to that day?

The Republic, yeah, the beginning of the Republic.

So there was the First Republic, then things went pear shaped, on that first republic.

And then we had a dictator for 48 years.

And that was not a democracy.

That was, dictatorship.

And that was because of that first republic was not working properly, because politicians was not answering to, the people's question, because, the governments were not working because people were corrupt, you know, and so I think that, there's a lot of lessons from there, from then, that today are also very important.

Do you see those as parallel?

Corruption and extremism?

Do you think that they are in tandem when you go so far down the ideological track?

Oh, absolutely.

I think that, corruption is a virus that destroys society.

And, when people feel that and they see that that exists, they don't believe in institutions because they think that everyone is corrupt.

And I think that is very, very important, to be very keen on transparency, transparency towards the citizens, transparency as an institution and that people really know what's going on and where the money is spent.

So that for me is very important.

That is transparent.

Well, only someone, who is unconcerned about what money they can make from bribes is going to administer ethically that office.

First of all, I think that very few businessmen and successful businessmen are successful politicians because these are, it's very different.

I mean, the idea that business is in politics are the same, or that you can apply the rules of business to politics.

No, I mean institutions, political institutions, the country cannot be run like a company.

And so, I might have a different view about that.

I think that basically being, very rich or a billionaire doesn't help to be a politician.

People want to see people like them.

You know, one of the things that, people feel about me is that I'm like them, and I know their problems.

I go to the poor neighborhoods and then those poor neighborhoods, people know that I know what they are because I come from a very poor family from the south.

So I know what is living in difficult conditions.

I know when my father was basically unemployed and my mother had to get ends meat just to have food on the table.

And I think that empathy and that understanding someone that, was born a millionaire cannot have it.

I mean, I'm not saying, this just a fact.

And so it's very important.

So for me, in the town hall, was extremely important that my main focus is housing.

So when I got here, I signed this agreement with the European Union for having '560 million for housing.

And we started like looking at apartments and places that were empty, that were our property, but were totally empty.

And so we were able to basically refurbish with sometimes very small amounts, and to get those apartments to families that were in need.

Then we created a program to help people to pay the rent.

So in Lisbon, if you're young people and you have more than one third of your income to pay the rent, we pay the difference.

So you are limited to one third of your income so that was a fantastic measure.

Now we have, like, more than a thousand families on that program.

And I told that young people, like, just like you have to put your name on the list because we have not refused anyone to help them pay the rent.

And so when people start, like some people imagine, you know, we have very low salaries in this country, people that make '1,000, they cannot pay '700 of rent.

But if I pay 500 and they pay 200, then they have a little bit more room to get to the end of the month.

And so for me, housing is, for me, so important.

But it's something that people don't see.

You know, some people come to me, especially my political opponents.

Oh, but that person doesn't have an apartment.

Yes.

Yeah, that one doesn't.

But there's like 3000 that have it and now make more.

So for me housing is the base.

I mean, you have to have a house to have dignity to look up for work, to feel healthy.

You know, if you don't have a house or an apartment, how can you feel?

I mean, how can you just get up in the morning?

So for me, it has been my main focus for my mandate has been housing.

I think that we achieved a lot, and that people, at least in those neighborhoods, they understand that.

But there's a lot still to do.

I mean, these, it's a city where I have to do a lot more.

I think it's very US or American to look at people that are billionaires and become politicians.

I think that in Europe we have less of that, and so, nothing against that.

But I think that, as a public servant, you have to be a little closer to the people in terms of understanding.

I'm on your page.

I mean, I know I'm an American, but I'm on your page.

I want you to just, in the time we have left in this beautiful city hall, there may be a few other rooms that you want to.

-Yes.

-At least walk us through.

Let me show you my office.

Oh my goodness.

So this is the office, where I work.

It's a bit messy, but it's a very, unique office.

And I've tried to mix what I think is really the secret sauce of innovation.

So, like, the old and the new, the traditional and the innovation.

And so I've chosen a couple of pieces of art like this one.

It's probably one of the best artists that we have in Portugal and even internationally.

His name it calls Vhils, Alexandre Farto.

So, Lisbon is a woman by definition, is feminine.

And so these are the buildings of face, and the cork, which is a very interesting material.

And so I have it here just behind me.

And, the artist was very generous, to give, this piece of amazing art to the people of Lisbon.

And so I have decided just, in the last four years, I have opened four museums in Lisbon.

One is about contemporary art, where I show all these pieces for the people of Lisbon, pieces that we buy every year.

And another one that I really would like you to go call the Almada Negreiros.

Which was, an amazing artist, from, like, modern and contemporary art, but it's a place where, all the refugees during the Second World War, would pass by before going to New York.

And so you have, people like Peggy Guggenheim, and Giacometti, and Lawrence and, like, big scientists that came through Lisbon to go to New York.

Wow.

And I think that, you know, the name of Lisbon is, in ancient Phoenician was the Alis Ubbo.

And that means safe harbor.

And I think that Lisbon was that safe harbor during the Second World War.

And so, I'm always very moved by the stories, of so many also Americans that come here and their, parents or grandparents, they survived the war, in Germany by coming through Lisbon.

And Lisbon was their safe harbor.

And so we, two years ago, we discovered that was a man, that did pictures of those moments of when those refugees, that were coming, of course, most of them were Jewish refugees that were coming from Nazi, Germany through, France, that was occupied.

And then they would like, feel that they were welcomed here, in this city.

And I think that in times that we're living of war all over the world, having a city that is still the safe harbor where people feel that they are safe, that, it's very neat.

So, that that museum also has these messages, not just from the big ones like Peggy Guggenheim or people like Giacometti and other big artists, but also from, people, that they were running away from Nazi Germany and they had to, start a new life in America.

As a mayor, is it not a bit stunning to you, how much amnesia your constituents and frankly, the constituents of the world have, coming out of of Covid?

I was very lucky because I think that one of my main things about health was like, people have the right to have a doctor.

And so I started a free program where people have a free health plan, those that are 65 or plus.

And so, someone that is 65 or plus, they have to have access.

So they have access for free for a doctor.

So probably after Covid, people understood that was really important and they wanted that.

Then we started like, little clinics where people can, in the neighborhoods go to the doctor, even without an appointment.

And so we really started a lot of health programs and at the local level in Lisbon, that today, as we were speaking before about, being free, like, having things that people feel that they are receiving something.

We did that with public transportation, as you know, in Lisbon, the young people until the age of 23 and the elderly people 65 or plus don't pay public transportation in Lisbon.

And for health, the ones that are the elderly ones, 65 or plus, they don't pay for the doctor.

And then we had like small programs that are very important, like, breast scans for women below 50 because they had on the National Health Service, the ones that were 50 plus, they could have it for free.

But the ones, that were like, before 50 years old, they couldn't.

So we have started, and I think that people wanted that.

And I think that was one of the major things I did here.

Here I like, you know, it's a lot of tourism.

Yeah.

These like the place where tourists come all the time.

So, it's interesting for me because, I can walk freely.

Yeah.

Most of the tourists don't know who I am, so that's good.

And so we do a little bit of a walk.

We go there, and then we go to the other side.

All these, this was the place.

I mean, this was the place where there was, like, the starting of the city was around here.

So you had the Jewish Quarter over there.

Then we had the Muslim Quarter over there, and they had the Christians, that were the majority.

But so for centuries it was called a tri city, the tri city, the three religion city, and, those, three religions work together, respected each other.

And so today there's just a little bit of that from that past, because then came the Inquisition.

And, you know, there's a lot of mistakes in the past and like the story of any country but the beginning and then the DNA of Lisbon was really, diversity and then mixed, from all sides.

So, Mr.

Mayor, have you worked up a bit of an appetite?

Yes.

I mean, it is like a lovely walk and, super to be with you here and show, your viewers, the beautiful city that we have, I mean, it's really, for me, the most beautiful city in the world.

So, I'm very happy to show it.

And the chef is a very good man, and, you're going to like it.

And, of course, walking like this, we need to eat something.

Yes.

Mayor, what did you eat most frequently growing up?

Look, from a very young age, I used to eat a lot of grilled fish that I like very much.

But in my region in the south, because I come from a south, we used to eat a lot of meat.

And, there's these, special dishes, like meat with clams, which very like, strange to have, like, slices of meat with clams, and that's very typical from the south here in Lisbon, a lot of, caught fish.

But yes, when I was young, like that, kind of like, this meat with clams, which is a very strange thing -outside of Portugal.

-What type of meat was it?

It was actually pork.

Like pork meat with clams.

It's like, it's a very traditional dish from the south of Portugal.

So that's like my kind of like a memories, when I was young.

It's fantastic.

A bit of, my Portuguese... is all good.

So in Portugal, we always start by a piece of bread, that's very important to like you... Crispy or?

I'll take this one.

But the crispy is good too, one of each.

Okay.

I think one of each, I think is important.

-The little bit of bread.

-Excellent.

All right.

Like Portuguese bread is nice.

Mm!

So, sardines.

-No anchovies.

-Anchovies.

Anchovies.

I messed that up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No no no worries.

Do you like them?

I like them.

But, sardines are a thing here too, right?

Oh yeah.

Absolutely.

But you don't have sardines every day.

This is something I've never gotten acclimated to.

The anchovies?

Yeah.

There's a bit of, you know, you have to... -I like liver.

-Yeah.

I mean, but it's one of those things that they say is a refined taste.

-Yeah.

-But... Also anchovies for me is a bit difficult.

It depends.

But they normally, what he does very well is that in like, the way he does it is always very smooth and, different like the duck with the orange is awesome.

Yeah.

So he really knows how to do it.

The duck, maybe my favorite so far.

-It's fantastic.

-Yeah.

So you do something rather rational in this country and in your municipal election, you have a two week -campaign season.

-Absolutely.

We in America have at least a two year campaign season for nearly every office.

But you're doing it a different way.

And how did that get started?

You know, you talk about the origin in the early 20th century of republicanism in Portugal, but the your constituents find it to be more palatable, approachable experience, having a two week campaign?

I think so, and I think that people are... First, people are tired of politics in general all over the world.

And I think that, the way at least we see it in this country is that you have a two week.

Of course, it's longer than that because we start the pre-campaign.

But, you know, for me, as a mayor, it's very difficult to be campaigning and being a mayor.

And when I see countries where you have campaigns that are for a year.

So it means that your mandate as mayor or as a president, it's actually less than the reality, because if you're campaigning half of the time, you are not in government half of the time.

So I have a four year mandate.

I have to be working for four years.

So I think it's very important that campaigns are not more than a months.

Let's say it.

Is that, become your tradition or is it actually a law?

It's a law.

It's a law.

That you restrict campaign activities to that period?

Absolutely.

And we are very strict about it.

In many countries where there developed democracies are so-called developed democracies, there is this interesting chasm between what works municipally and what's going on federally, right?

You had votes of no confidence recently here.

You've had kind of a mess of various coalitions, but no majority, right?

No clear majority outcome at the federal level.

That doesn't seem to be unique to the United States or Portugal.

This idea that federal elections are ruining a lot of, ruining politics, like you said, making people tired, exhausted of politics.

I think there's, it's like a, it is true and there's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

People are tired, so they, or they don't vote or they vote in extreme parties like populist parties, because that's a vote of being, tired, not because they believe or they're like, extreme right wing or extreme left wing.

They just tired.

And I think that causes more fragmentation.

And if you have more fragmentatio is more difficult to govern because you need the full majority to pass the law.

If not, you have to negotiate all the time.

Northern countries in Europe were more used to that fragmentation.

They were used to, governing different coalitions with different parties, southern part of Europe and even like Germany and France, Germany more.

But in France, I mean, the president has full powers.

But then if the Prime Minister doesn't have the parliament with him, which is the case now, you have a problem.

So the problem is polarization.

It's extremism.

And that problem is a virus, against democracy because those extremists, they don't like institutions, they want to destroy institutions.

And they think that by destroying institutions, they could have a better world.

I can tell you, I mean, either you destroy institutions is chaos, it's basically chaotic government.

We have to, really safeguard institutions.

We have to respect institutions.

And, that's the most important thing for a country.

I mean, countries with weak institutions are weak countries.

Countries with strong institutions are strong countries.

And I think that populists are somehow destroying institutions.

Well said.

Well said.

I'm going to try a little of the chickpeas now.

Yeah, please that's good.

So is there an innovation emanating from another city that you're excited by, that you would like to adopt here?

I've tried to copy a lot of things like the good practices that people are doing in other cities.

So I've appointed Lisbon, or I've basically, Lisbon was nominated as to be carbon neutral by 2030, and that was because we were really, very keen on reducing emissions, carbon emissions in the city.

The first thing was to have the public transportation for free, which doubled the number of people that use public transportation.

That's something that I seen in Estonia.

A country is very far from here where they started having public transportation for free, the city of Luxembourg.

And then I copied that to Lisbon.

But Lisbon is much bigger.

Then, in London, they're digging these tunnels to avoid flooding.

Below the river Thames.

And so we started digging two tunnels.

That one basically stops there, that comes below ground to adapt to climate change.

When there is a lot of rain, the rain comes below ground and comes to the river.

And alongside with that, an idea also that I got from best practices to have a big reservoir where you get that water from the rain, you kind of like treat that water, but not it's not drinkable.

And you use that water to clean the streets and to, water the gardens.

And so you avoid using drinkable water to basically clean the streets, which is really stupid.

So with that, we are reducing, by millions of euros, the water bill from the municipality.

And so all that was inspired by different cities around the world, but around the like, the Europe we have basically, fantastic models like Copenhagen, in Denmark or Helsinki in Finland.

And so all those models now, what I've done is really to look around because I was in Europe and see what was the best practices that people were doing, and bring it here to Lisbon.

And so that has been a little bit of, my thing as a mayor, because mayors normally we're very local.

And when you're very local, you don't see outside.

I'm very local in my day-to-day, but I have a lot of experience from outside.

And so I was really able to get that to the city.

And that's why I was awarded the million euro for the innovation prize, and then for the sustainability, for the carbon neutrality, which I think we will achieve by 2030.

That's 20 years before the European targets in 2050.

And those are things that, I basically inspired from so many.

So, there's not one city, but there's projects and, things that I've been kind of like getting from around the world and doing it here.

Keep imagining.

And thank you for inspiring our viewers today.

Thank you Alex it's a big pleasure.

Mayor, a pleasure being with you today.

[music] Continuing production of The Open Mind has been made possible by grants from the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, Angelson Family Foundation, Robert and Kate Niehaus, Robert S. Kaplan Foundation, Grateful American Foundation, Draper Foundation, and Lawrence B. Benenson.