(church bells ringing).

(church bells ringing).

(soft instrumental music).

♪ ♪ MAN: There is actually, um, a prejudice between different nationalities.

Like, there was this Italian boy in our room and there was this Irish boy, and I was actually shocked to find them at odds.

I said, "Well you guys are, you know, you're both White.

I mean, what is it?

He said, "Well, you know, the dagos run everything."

And the guy said, "Those Irish, you know how they are.

And they think, you know, they think the world is theirs, you know?"

And I was actually shocked.

So you can't say, you know, narrow it down to just one race or one creed, it's everyone.

Everyone has done this sometimes even, you know, you have.

WOMAN: Okay, say that everybody is guilty of it, I mean, why don't we start teaching it now so that we won't make the same mistake over again rather than teach what... MAN: Don't say, we say the church.

The church was responsible.

WOMAN: Okay, why didn't the church start teaching?

MAN: That's what we're saying!

We're holding the church responsible.

WOMAN: But when talking about the church, who are you talking about?

MAN: Religion in general.

WOMAN: Religion, it's not the religion, it's the people.

WOMAN 2: I mean, the people make up a church, don't they?

The church doesn't make up itself.

(congregation singing).

♪ You can tell the love of Jesus ♪ ♪ You can say he died for all ♪ ♪ Take the task he gives you gladly ♪ ♪ Let His work your pleasure be ♪♪ PASTOR BILL YOUNGDAHL: I think the Christian community has a great opportunity today to really help change the climate.

You know the myth that the White man is inherently superior to the Black man?

This myth has plagued us for such a long time.

To take these myths and to listen to the facts and perhaps to let go of them, for you and I know that it was not the White man and it was not the White church, but it was the Negro.

It was the Negro church which initiated this struggle in this quest for justice and love among men.

What kind of attitudes are you sharing with others, your friends, your children when it comes to race relations?

What is your race relations vocabulary?

I've heard so many Christians use the word, "nigger."

By what we say, by how we act, we teach, we witness.

WOMAN: Well, thank you, Pastor Youngdahl.

I know we have heard and seen a lot today, and, uh, we Christians need to be up and doing, and I know that.

Thank you.

ERNIE CHAMBERS: The few particulars that make Omaha different from New York are just incidental.

The problem exists because White people think they're better than Black people and they want to oppress us and they want us to allow ourselves to be oppressed.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Well, this is a big...

I agree with you perfectly.

This is the basic problem.

ERNIE: Then what are you even talking about?

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: That White people think they're better than others.

ERNIE: What is it that I can do?

I can't solve the problem.

You guys pull the strings that close schools.

You guys draw the boundaries that keep our kids restricted to the ghetto.

You guys write up the restrictive covenants that keep us out of houses.

So, it's up to you to talk to your brothers and your sisters and persuade them that they have a responsibility.

We've assumed ours for over 400 years, and we're tired of this kind of stuff now.

We're not going to suffer patiently anymore.

No more turning the other cheek.

No more blessing our enemies.

No more praying for those who despitefully use us.

We're going to show you that we've learned the lessons you've taught us, we've studied your history, and you did not take over this country by singing, "We Shall Overcome."

You did not gain control of the world like you have it now by dealing fairly with a man and keeping your word.

You're treaty-breakers, you're liars, you're thieves.

You rape entire continents of races of people then you wonder why these very people don't have any confidence or trust in you.

Your religion means nothing.

Your law is a farce and we see it every day.

You demonstrated it in Alabama, and I can say you because you're part of the whole system.

You profit from it.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Mm-hmm.

I know.

That's right.

ERNIE: In fact, you make your living from it.

You couldn't walk around and talk to people, stand up in your pulpit on Sunday and preach nice little songs and say, "Now we're gonna give thanks to the Lord for he is good and O Jesus, be among us."

As far as we're concerned, your Jesus is contaminated just like everything else you tried to force upon us is contaminated.... PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Mm-hmm.

Well, uh... ERNIE: So you can have him.

And here's what I'll say.

I wish you would follow Jesus like we followed him 'cause if you did that, then we'd be in charge tomorrow.

I think the problem is so bad that we can have no understanding at all.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Do you think it's gotten to the point where there can never be that reconciliation then?

ERNIE: No.

You talk about justice, and it means one thing to you and we talk about it, it means something else to us, and it'll always be that way.

And I'd like you to know, I have a terrible feeling against preachers because I think you guys are the ones who are largely responsible for the problem in the first place.

And you can accept it or not, any way you choose.

And for you this may be an excursion, you know, in across the line.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: What about the person that wants to listen?

I genuinely feel that I want to listen.

ERNIE: Well, if you listen and try to do something, you'll get kicked out of your church.

See, that's, that's the way your people are.

MAN: Well, we can make changes back.

I mean, so the changes that have come have been drastic.

ERNIE: God bless you and love you, brother.

Come back and see us again sometime.

And don't look back in anger.

Thanks for taking it so well.

He thought we were gonna do in here like they do to us.

If we went in one of their places, everybody would have jumped out their chairs and got some ropes together and hung one of us.

We couldn't even go in one of their places like this.

(clippers whirring).

(overlapping chatter).

(phone ringing).

MAN: Barber shop.

Just a moment.

Telephone now, son.

(motor rumbling).

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Well, here's where we are.

We've confessed our sins.

We've tried to open up and say, "Doggone it, uh, we did this.

We did do it.

We're all guilty, terribly guilty."

But what do we do now?

Do we sit around and despair?

If we do, then let's all knock ourselves off and get the heck off the Earth.

Or do we try to live together and work out a better life?

I would see um, an interracial exchange of couples as something sponsored or encouraged by our Social Ministry Committee to actually promote better human relations.

TED: If ten couples would um, take the time and the trouble to go into a Negro home with a sister church, do you think... RAY CRISTENSEN: Comfortable sacrificing to attempt to start with this problem that hasn't been introduced apparently too well in our congregation.

TED: Uh... We're not running around proselytizing Negro members.

We simply want the understanding because of the fact they are in our community.

Of course, how far we are... PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Together as a people.

TED: How far away are they, Bill?

Not over two blocks, are they?

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Three blocks we have Negro families living.

RAY: I feel there are so many areas that we could work in.

There are tremendous number of places.

And why pick this one to start out with?

In 100 years, the Social Ministry Committee has done nothing and then now we start out with the most controversial issue we could.

WOMAN: Well Ray, there are many other things we could look for and find to do, but is there anything more important, any problem more crucial right now?

RAY: Two board members said, "This will split the church wide open."

And now you're, you're asking me, am I afraid to present this to the council?

You're speaking of my church, you know?

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: I'm convinced that the Ministry of Reconciliation that we've talked so long about that takes place so seldom in the church can only take place if people learn that they can, they can take different sides of the issue and still forgive one another and... RAY: But now we're talking about, let's gamble now unprepared as the congregation is.

ALL: That's right.

RAY: And take a gamble on this.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: That's right, say we propose it.

Say there's a real explosion among the council members.

What do we lose by proposing it as a proposal of the Social... TED: What if we lose?

What have we lost?

Those who oppose us will go home and say, you know, what are these clowns doing down there, you know?

And they'll go home and they'll talk about it and at least they'll think about it.

I just see where we have lost nothing, actually.

RAY: Now, I'm not saying...

I didn't say no, let's not present it.

We have discussed this as a committee, a number of times and you've reinforced our thinking and yet we're suggesting proposing this to the, uh, the board without this education.

You're asking for a pretty tough decision, and I'd just soon put it off.

(sighs).

TED: Ah well, I'm not gonna give you a chance to discuss it anymore.

I'm simply gonna ask you how you vote.

All in favor, say aye.

ALL: Aye.

TED: Okay, so tomorrow night at the council meeting, we'll see what kind of reaction we get.

MAN: Why be so revolutionary and upheaval?

And let's take one step at a time.

TED: Do you think that this would be so, this would be so revolutionary and so repugnant to them that we'd lose some people?

The mere fact that on a voluntary basis we would, say ten couples, let's say... MAN 2: They're greatly concerned about it.

They figure and feel that this church might become integrated, and like Bob said, their exodus will be right out of here.

They don't see why we should go and keep harping on this idea of civil rights, uh, continually.

And they're looking for a little letup instead of continued agitation.

That's what I've heard.

MAN: If we lose 100 members, I would not like to see this.

I think we would destroy what we have built up here in our church over a good many years.

And this would be bad because we've got a good, strong congregation here, a very faithful congregation.

Now let's keep 'em intact while we make progress.

TED: I'm sure that we're all aware of the touchiness of this situation.

And boy, I've belonged to this church about as long as anybody here and I realize what we're gonna involve ourselves with.

But I also think that it's for the good of the church or I would never be involved in it.

RAY: I'll have to admit that it took 'em till 12:20 last night as a committee to convince me... (chuckles) That this congregation could meet the challenge.

And I'm rather, uh, embarrassed now that I didn't have more faith than I expressed last night.

HOMER: But I would hate to see any artificial movement which would affront either, and I hate to use the term side, which would hold back better relations.

MAN: I think there has to be a more general approach to this thing first.

Now, I don't know exactly what that approach should be, but, uh, I may be clear off base.

RAY: Well, if we do not start now as a church, the world is going to pass us by on the biggest issue of our lifetime.

And I perhaps am being overdramatic when I suggest, where were the people of Germany when the issue of the Jews came up?

Where was the Church, both Catholic and Lutheran?

How did they answer it?

And Walt, you say, "Let's take a step at a time."

This is the smallest step we know of, dialogue, talking with one another, understanding.

Let's not look back on history and say the church had nothing to do when the integration problem was around.

TED: Hold on.

Well, it's gonna be done on an individual basis anyway.

MAN: Individual basis, yes.

Individual basis.

That probably is all right.

TED: And you couldn't take a lesser step there.

MAN: Yeah.

TED: You couldn't take it a... You realize the church, we're behind business.

MAN: Yes, I agree with you.

TED: All right.

MAN: I agree with you.

TED: What a ridiculous thing for the church as a Christian body to say on a moral issue, we're behind business.

HOMER: And yet there are members of the congregation that are entitled to consideration.

I don't say they're right.

MAN: I have a little more liberal attitude towards this thing, and although I can't say that I'm completely swung around to it, I mean, I have some reservations.

My concern is the reaction of the congregation, how they're gonna take this thing.

I mean, that's my real concern.

RAY: As a church we're thinking about celebrating its 100th anniversary and we're wondering if it's gonna hold together through such a trial as ten members visiting into the homes of ten members of other churches that happen to be colored.

MAN: I'd like to be... RAY: 100 years of preaching, where has it gone?

Where has it gone?

MAN: Well, it's gonna be real interesting to see, I tell you.

(laughs).

(church bells ringing).

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Before the interracial visits had a chance to take place, our congregation was involved in controversy as a result of an activity taken part in by our high school class.

MAN: Can I tell you about sitting in small groups?

Sitting in groups of two twos and threes.

WOMAN: Don't worry, I'm not sitting by myself.

MAN: No, I don't want you to sit by yourself.

But we don't want to all sit together as a... PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: This Sunday morning high school class is studying this year the faith and worship of other churches.

On the Sunday morning devoted to Presbyterianism, they visited one of our neighboring Presbyterian churches, Calvin Memorial.

Calvin happens to be one of the churches involved in the planning of the interracial visits.

They attended the worship service and had a brief discussion after the service.

(congregation singing).

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Several weeks later, the teenagers from Calvin were invited to visit Augustana.

WOMAN: Good morning.

MAN: Good morning, how are you?

WOMAN: Fine, thank you.

MAN 2: Good morning.

MAN 3: Good morning.

How are you this morning?

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: I later learned that one family had not permitted their teenage daughter to attend class.

And another family on seeing the youth from Calvin drove away to attend another church.

MAN: If we will, he can either condemn himself to hell or he can build the way... (overlapping chatter).

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: After class they were asked if they would like to stay for worship.

(overlapping chatter).

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: They decided to stay and it was announced from the pulpit that the class was visiting.

I noticed no particular consternation over their presence.

(warm organ music).

Monday I received a letter from a family which was considering leaving the church.

I learned at a subsequent council meeting that there was strong opposition from a number of men on the council to this exchange of visits.

It was finally suggested that this kind of activity be stopped.

MAN: Do I understand you correctly to say that a good number of the members were disturbed by the visitation?

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Well, this amazes me and amazed Ted, too.

Ted made the comment this afternoon in my study that a number of people that he never dreamed would react this way reacted this way.

He was dumbfounded.

EARL: I think you're getting a true reaction.

Uh, they're responding uh, from what they really feel.

And I think analyzing this, you'll come up with the answer as to what type of people you have in your church.

How does this, in fact, affect you?

This would indicate to me how you really feel and whether you have the stamina, uh, to face up to your own congregation.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: I don't feel at all threatened.

I told Eileen at suppertime tonight, "I have a strange feeling of peace inside, really."

In other words, I don't want to run away.

I want to stay and live through this with the people, unless, as Ted intimated, uh, it could get to the point where the whole congregation was split.

And then, uh, I suppose the Senate president would come in, (laughs).

say, "Well Bill..." (laughs).

EARL: Well, I say three other ministers have been exiled from the City of Omaha during the year of '65 who were no less outspoken than yourself.

And I, uh, certainly can do no less to admire you for the smile that you're able to carry at this moment, and I point this out.

I feel that you're the man that fits the bill for the job.

It's not an easy one, and you certainly go with my blessings.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Thanks so much, I hope you will... Will you come to my council meeting next... WOMAN: You want him to speak for you?

(laughs).

TED: People are a little more inclined to talk and say what they mean, the fewer... RAY: Two days after the teenagers from Calvin Memorial visited Augustana, the Interracial Visit Committee met with the representatives of Hope Lutheran and Calvin Memorial.

Ted and I had been influenced by people indicating that they were upset, and uh, particularly with Sunday's visit from the kids from Calvin Memorial.

TED: Last Sunday when we had your class.... RAY: And I guess we just got cold feet.

MAN: So I don't want to be abrupt, but I would like to know whether or not we are going to have the visitations that we planned.

How many would like to have it to how many do not?

That's what we would like to know.

TED: But I think we should have it, but I don't think it can be done in November, Pastor.

MAN: Okay.

RAY: December, uh... December would be too busy that's... MAN: Usually we find time to do what we wanna do, you know?

TED: That's what I mean.

We've got to...

It's not important that we go out and get a few people.

It's how we get 'em.

They come and... RAY: And how can we judge who's ready for an experience of this kind to... TED: Oh, they come, they're ready.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Yes, well, I would assume that most of our council people would profit from this kind of involvement.

TED: Bill, you'd get less than, you'd get less than 1/4 of them.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of, but this is their need, this is our need.

TED: I'm talking about on a volunteer basis, you'd get less than 1/4, well, maybe a 1/4.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Well, then we'd have to go after 'em.

And maybe you and Ray could, say, talk two or three council members.

RAY: If a visit from a group of Negro teenagers has so disturbed our congregation, it seems to me then that we need to travel at a different pace or use a different strategy.

We just need more time.

TED: Go with them first, but um, let's not be too optimistic what we're gonna get from 'em, let me put it that way.

MAN: I mean, I'm not gonna say because some people in the church, you know, said, "Well, I'll leave."

I'm not gonna condemn the whole church.

I said, "Well, the persons who did it are rotten."

(laughs).

You know?

I'm not gonna hide the fact that I think, you know, they're wrong and well, they don't belong in... No, I'm not gonna say they don't belong in a church because the church is a place to learn.

MAN 2: Would you go in a church where you know you were upsetting the people because of your presence there?

MAN: Wait, that's a difficult question.

WOMAN: I don't think they're Christians at all because you're supposed to love your fellow man, and you're sure you're not doing it.

MAN: I do think the church does have a real responsibility to people like this because I read someplace where a church isn't really a showplace for saints.

It's the hospital for sinners.

And so if a person hates another person, where is he gonna learn the opposite if it's not in church?

PASTOR: We've got a ministry even to those you see who are not quote, "Enlightened," end quote.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: I don't think you can spare them from the tension and the conflict.

PASTOR: Well, we will have tension, but how do we take care of these who are not yet ready to go along with us?

This is the concern, and I think we have to face up to this in our churches.

How do we as churchmen now minister to these particular people to help them?

Because we don't want to lose them.

If we lose them, we can't even minister to them at all.

PASTOR 2: This one lady said to me, "Pastor," she said, "I want them to have everything I have.

I want God to bless 'em as much as he blesses me."

But she says, "Pastor, I just can't be in the same room.

It just bothers me."

How you gonna change a person?

I can't sit there and give her a sermon to change.

PASTOR: I live out west near Walt's church, not too far from it.

Supposing one of our homes in this neighborhood becomes available and a family comes in and they can't meet it economically so another Negro family moves in with them and all of a sudden we've got two or three families in a given house.

Nothing can lead, ah, more quickly to the deterioration of neighborhood than multiple family residents in an area that's supposed to be single family.

PASTOR 3: In fact, right where I'm living, we have quite a few Mexicans that have, and it's the same thing, the same problem that we have with the colored people.

I mean, their property deteriorates which looks, looks bad.

PASTOR: What can we do as pastors to prevent that which could be deteriorating?

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: We have to give the right facts to people so the myths can be dispelled.

Now, the mayor attacked this question very directly.

He said that when there is no panic selling in the neighborhood, the real estate values do not go down.

And major housing studies have proved this.

PASTOR 2: This matter of some of this being a myth, you'll never sell that to some of my people because they experienced a loss of sale of $1,000, $2,000 already.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Where, what neighborhood?

PASTOR 2: From moving from 49th to Western Omaha.

I've had conversation with some of the neighbors and the like and, uh, it wasn't all positive and, uh, especially since there were some that seemed to have nervous reactions about it and fear and so on.

And so this immediately poses this problem, how are you going to face these type of people?

Because I'm not big enough to overcome their emotional strains when some of these things happen.

Much as we would want to embrace any other race on an equal basis and the like 'cause these people still have their problems.

(clippers whirring).

MAN: Okay, now they claim that one reason they don't want colored people living in their neighborhood is because, you know, they let the property go down and they bring down the valuation of their property.

But uh, any person that has enough money to buy, uh, a house and want a nice house has enough spunk about 'em to keep his place up.

I mean, so it's not that that they are scared that their property will go down.

It's just that they don't want 'em out there.

That's the way I look at it.

MAN 2: This is true.

These people have a kind of self-deception.

You know, they believe.

They've circulated these myths so long that they've begun to believe them.

And once you believe them, they say if you define a situation as being real, it will be real in its consequences.

And this is just what's happened.

They've come to actually believe this, and any evidence of the contrary, he's the exception.

But the fact is all the people who do struggle hard enough to accumulate a down payment, they do want something better for themselves and for their kids and they hope that their neighbors will be the same kind of people that they are.

ERNIE: Well, the Black man fights for the White man, not for himself.

He tells you to bleed and you bleed.

He says, "Go bleed in Korea for the White man," and you go bleed because you have to.

He tells you to go to Vietnam or Lebanon or Laos, and we have to bleed.

Then in Mississippi or Alabama, or Omaha, Nebraska where they're taking our rights and we know who the people are who are taking 'em, we don't have any blood then.

We're radical just because we want to get the rights that we fight overseas for so the White man can have.

We fight over there to defend his women and children and defend his land from attack.

And while we're over there fighting for him, our own people are being attacked by the same White people over here we're supposed to be fighting to defend.

MAN: Right, everybody's got something, something to fight for, right?

BARBER: You got the rights that you fought for?

Do you feel that?

MAN: A staff sergeant when I got out.

BARBER: Do you feel that you're living under those rights now?

MAN 2: Why should he go over there and fight the Vietnamese?

They've done nothing to him.

And right in his own country, he can go places and he can't even get in a hotel.

BARBER: Right.

MAN 2: I mean, and he can drive in a place and might not even be able to get gas if the people don't look at your license plates and see where you're from.

That's what he was talking about.

MAN: Right: Have you ever been in Hawaii?

MAN 2: Yeah.

MAN: Right.

What do they think about you?

They're as Black as you are and I am, right?

MAN 2: Yep.

MAN: Okay then, what a bottle of beer cost you?

80 cents, don't it?

Will they speak to you?

Because they got long, pretty hair.

ERNIE: No, that's not why.

The White man got there and contaminated them.

MAN: You can't go to places in Japan, man!

MAN 2: You know what?

You know why, don't you?

ERNIE: The American White man... MAN: The Japanese are gonna keep you out.

(yelling).

MAN 3: But look man, let me say this now.

Even if you go over there and they mistreat you, well, you can't feel too bad, that's not your home.

But when you come to your own home and be mistreated, then you really feel mistreated.

This is my home here, and if there's being a fight, we'll just fight here.

ERNIE: Amen, right.

MAN 3: You know what I mean?

Why go there and fight?

ERNIE: Have you ever been turned away from a hotel by a Vietnamese?

MAN 3: No, no.

ERNIE: By a Chinese?

MAN 3: No, I... ERNIE: A Japanese?

MAN 3: No.

ERNIE: A Korean?

MAN 3: No.

ERNIE: A Lebanese?

MAN 3: No.

ERNIE: How about a White man?

MAN 3: Yes!

ERNIE: Then if we should fight, we should fight the man who's hurting us, and the White man is one and he lives in this country.

MAYOR ALBERT SORENSEN: My wife and I were watching television and on the news broadcast there was a story of the Marines landing in Vietnam.

The second boy coming off the landing barge was a Negro.

But I say to you that if this boy comes home to Omaha and he comes to me as the mayor of this city and he is looking for a job, I say to you that I'm not going to be the mayor who says, "Well, I'm sorry young man, you're just not qualified.

We can't find a job for you."

And if he wants to move his family into a decent home, this mayor is not going to say, "I'm sorry, your skin is Black."

You're condemned to the ghetto for the rest of your life.

The most deplorable, the most disgraceful conditions that you can find anywhere in America, you could find a few blocks from where we are.

And if this is true, and I know it's true, then I find it so difficult to understand why it's so hard to get the Christian layman in this great city to become involved in this moral issue.

And I say to you that if the church will not become involved, then I fear for our future.

And I'm here to ask you, and in fact I'm here to beg you to become involved with me as the mayor of this city in a crusade for progress and human relations in our hometown.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Isn't it true that one of the problems in race relations is that we define another person as not being quite human or totally human because he is Black?

And one of the reasons we do that is 'cause we don't know 'em as a human being, and we don't have enough positive contact with 'em.

HOMER: A child cannot go through high school without daily being in contact in the classroom, at the locker, in the gymnasium with people of other color.

Not necessarily Black, but primarily so.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: This is still a different relationship.

RAY: It's today true if we're talking about adults that have grown up and have never had this contact.

HOMER: But this has been true essentially in the city of Omaha for 40 years.

MAN: That's right.

I had a colored boy in my swim class at school.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: And I'm not talking about this kind of, you know, we bump shoulders at the foot locker in the high school, this kind of thing.

I'm talking about perhaps a more meaningful, in-depth relationship which would really explode the myths that many of us have been sort of held down with whole lifetime.

MATT: But back up a little bit and take a look at the climate that has been created in the last year and you have an artificial situation now.

This is not good.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: What do you mean artificial?

MATT: Enough of the people, I think, in this congregation uh, now are suspicious, and this is not good.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: And what are they suspicious of though, Matt?

MATT: I suspect they think now that this is a forced integration, and this is not good.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: What is a forced integration?

I don't get what you... MATT: A forced integration is going out, I suspect and taking someone, bringing him in just to say that now we have integrated, now we can brag.

We don't want to do this and I don't feel that this is back of it, but I think the feeling is there.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Well, this would not be bringing, uh, groups of Negros into worship with us.

This would be exchange in the homes.

MATT: Right, but you see, the climate is not good right now if I would read the congregation correctly.

I think you have to come in the other avenue now and you can begin serving people in all levels of the social ministry, whether the person be handicapped, mentally retarded or whatever... PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Mm-hmm.

MATT: Then it's then that... Then let's let it grow from that.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Mm-hmm, well, I don't... MATT: It takes more patience, and this is not easy to come by.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Well you see, to me this is the tamest of ministries to increase understanding.

Now, this is about as, um, a non-controversial way of increasing understanding as you can possibly find 'cause it's not forcing anything on anybody.

HOMER: But you would like to have this happen, correct?

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Oh yes, I would like to see this happen.

Now, we might... HOMER: But what we're saying is, what we're saying is, what we'd like to see happen is something that would lead into this without busting it off before it can occur.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: This isn't any great, big thing, it's just a little thing, really.

And maybe the people would blow it up as a big thing.

Maybe this is where I'm miscalculating.

MATT: There's a question here of timing at this particular time.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Well, see what I'm saying, is Homer, is that if it doesn't come very soon, we found that many Negros now are antagonistic even to this.

Let's say you want to get together now, you know?

After rejecting us now you want to get together?

You want us, and the only basis you can come is say, "Look what you can do for us."

It's more what they can do for us than what we can do for them.

MATT: I think this is an indication to the timing is not good.

RAY: We meet, we talk and we still conclude it's not the right time.

Not the right time for whom?

For me, for my parents, for my wife, my son?

Should we pray, John?

John, first.

Even my parents know the world is changing, that it's not their world anymore.

MAN: Come, Lord Jesus, be our guest.

Let these gifts to us be blessed, Amen.

RAY: Take myself.

I know no Negro personally.

I've never sat and talked to one honestly.

I don't know their problems.

(overlapping chatter).

RAY: How many years do I need to prepare myself in order to talk with another human being?

You ready?

Okay.

What am I waiting for?

(diners singing).

♪ Happy birthday to you ♪ ♪ Happy birthday to you ♪ ♪ Happy birthday dear Grandpa ♪ ♪ Happy birthday to you ♪♪ RAY: Within four days, my first opportunity to listen came.

ERNIE: He came to fulfill it.

He said it... RAY: I guess it was at this...

I know it was at this meeting that I began to understand what this urgency that Bill had been preaching and talking to us about all meant.

ERNIE: Which is the bigger threat to American democracy and the Constitution?

A Vietnamese mother suckling her child or a White racist governor in Alabama who says, in so many words, "To hell with the Constitution and Johnson and everything else?"

Which is the greater threat to democracy?

EARL: We're between, we're at the point now where demonstrations don't work anymore.

You have only one choice.

Race riot, you see?

Or forget it.

MAN: All we're really asking is to have people obey the Constitution.

That takes care of it right there.

So it could be done overnight.

There's no other way to say it.

EARL: In other words, if Christians would follow the preaching of the Bible, and if non-Christians or others who did not choose to follow the Bible would follow the Constitution, you're saying that the Negro would have his freedom and would have it instantly.

WOMAN: I have done as much as I know how to do, unless you can tell me some other things I can do to change.

I have gone to groups and I've tried to change them.

I've tried with my own friends.

I've tried with friends in other states.

I have spoken before the state legislature.

I have gone everywhere I've been asked to go to try to explain or interpret or do anything.

I got laughed at by some.

I got cold-shouldered by others.

I got sneered at by others.

I have not been spoken to by many people for years, and personally I don't give a damn.

But I am simply telling you that's the way it is in Omaha, and that's the way it is in every place in this United States.

ERNIE: And the reason you have so much frustration is that your own White people will not listen to you.

WOMAN: That's right.

ERNIE: And this just bears off what we say.

How long has this man been your preacher?

RAY: One year.

ERNIE: All right, then he's spoken the truth as there's an indication that he hasn't tried to do the right thing.

How has his church responded to it?

Have they been favorable?

Have they said they're going to rededicate themselves and do the right thing toward their Black brothers?

WOMAN: No.

ERNIE: There's been though no outward change in the attitude of his church members toward him since he started telling the truth on this issue?

RAY: Now you're asking, of course, a personal opinion.

ERNIE: Based on what you've observed.

RAY: I feel the progress has been slow, but, uh... ERNIE: Do they react positively or negatively to what he says?

They don't do anything then.

RAY: I suppose that I would rather not answer that.

Uh... ERNIE: Are you a Christian?

RAY: Certainly.

ERNIE: And you're a Christian because you believe in Christ, and you know that he never hesitated to take a position on a moral issue regardless of who might oppose him.

RAY: You're not asking my uh, opinion or my position.

You're asking, uh, the position of the church.

ERNIE: What you have observed.

RAY: I can only speak for myself.

I cannot speak for the church.

ERNIE: Have you observed any change in the church's attitude towards your minister since he began telling the truth on this issue?

RAY: I think so, yes.

ERNIE: Now, was, is it a change that is negative or one that is positive?

RAY: Both of them.

ERNIE: Is it more negative than positive?

RAY: The negative element of the argument always seems more dynamic.

The people that are opposed to things, I feel, speak up more than those that are in a bit of... ERNIE: Well, is his position in his church more secure now than it was before he started telling the truth?

Or is it less secure?

Do you think he might be considering moving from this locale or are they perhaps considering moving him from this locale?

RAY: We don't remove ministers in that way.

A minister's calling to a church is a calling of God.

ERNIE: And God is, is directing him to tell the truth according to your faith, more or less.

RAY: That's true.

ERNIE: Then if these people, they must all be reacting very positively to him since they feel that God sent him and God is telling him what to say.

His word is echoing and mirroring to you what God has on his mind for this congregation, so his position obviously is more secure now than ever before 'cause he's telling more of the truth, right?

RAY: I don't believe that any of the apostles, the disciples were secure because they followed Christ.

I don't recall the percentage, but, uh, they didn't all die of old age.

ERNIE: But we're not talking about disciples going to non-believers to bring people from out of the world into the church.

We're talking about a Christian church where all the people profess to believe in Christ... RAY: You know, truly you give me an inferiority complex.

And this is a... ERNIE: It's not me.

RAY: Command of the language.

ERNIE: It's not me giving you an inferiority complex.

It's just that you know what the truth is and you don't want to tell it.

We're fighting ignorance in the place where there should be the most enlightenment.

EARL: I think that if the church could have waited 350 years to preach true Christianity, as far as I'm concerned, the church can wait forever.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: No possibility for repentance.

EARL: Oh, I didn't say that.

It would take some great miracle.

Like little green men landing by the millions from Mars on Earth.

This would so shake the White world, they'd forget all about racism.

They'd worry about the green colors to the Black.

Something of this dimension would change the White men.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: I bet you, um, in our congregation, you could change a lot of people's attitudes just by getting to know them.

EARL: Your church is 100 years old, Bill.

Is that right?

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: All I'm saying, Earl, all I'm saying Earl, is that we have 1,200 White people that don't even know any Negroes, or very few of them do.

EARL: When that church returns to where it should have been in the first place, that is the day that I walk back into the church.

I would give my life to the church.

I said, love is my premise.

ERNIE: Yes.

EARL: But at the same time... RAY: He talked hate, hate, hate, but his eyes were full of love.

But it got to me.

I think this was the first time too that I realized days later, it took me days to realize it, but, uh, this was what we were suggesting in this visitation.

Not to encounter Ernie Chambers.

(laughs).

JUNE: I can't... (laughter).

RAY: But that people could sit down and talk with one another and these same things would come up.

We've got our foot raised to take this first step, and we haven't got the guts to complete this step.

And once we're on that step, the rest of the ladder is nothing, absolutely nothing.

JUNE: I think it's because... RAY: It's the first step that's hard.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: I know a lot of people have been bothered by the tension.

I feel that now maybe more than when I went through the meetings because I thought it was a healthy sign and a good sign.

Evidently, they didn't sleep their full eight hours when they got home, but I still think through this, there's been individual growth.

PASTOR: Oh, there's no question about upward growth in this group.

See, the tension was good that you had, and people of like mind or even openness, uh, who have objective minds, it was good for them.

But there are those people who haven't reached this level of understanding yet, and for them the tension became a stumbling block.

And it cost, I think, the rapport, the loss of rapport, the cleavage that we now find existing.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Can't there be rapport or genuine rapport or relationships with people even in the midst of this kind of stark honesty?

PASTOR: I would hope so.

I would hope so.

Of course, I would disagree with you on what stark honesty is, uh.

I don't think it's dishonest to be diplomatic, what I call diplomatic, some other people may call it cowardice, or to be strategic.

I don't believe this is... PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: This confuses me because then where does the element of the prophetic come into our ministry?

PASTOR: Well, can't one still do this and be prophetic?

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Well, I think one of the elements of prophetic ministry is honesty.

PASTOR: Well, I don't think this other is dishonesty.

I don't believe, well, here's an illustration.

You might well tell a woman that she's ugly and be honest, but it's not dishonest to say nothing.

See, it could be honest if you were to say it, but it's not dishonest to refrain from saying it and... PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: But what you're telling me then as I hear it really is that my way is just not the way for Augustana Church.

PASTOR: Well, this is what it appears to be now, doesn't it?

WOMAN: But I think that most ministers are too afraid.

There are more... WOMAN 2: But there are some, yes.

WOMAN: There are some, there are some, but they're not enough.

I mean, I don't see how a minister can... WOMAN 2: Well, it's really the church's fault because they know if they, um, do speak out, they're liable to lose their jobs.

WOMAN: But the minister is pledged to preach the Word of God.

And if he doesn't do it, I mean, then why is he a minister?

WOMAN 2: Well, you've gotta look at it as economics... WOMAN: Well, you said... WOMAN 2: But if he speaks out for what he believes and the church doesn't believe it, he's gonna be out... WOMAN: So he should compromise everything he believes and everything that Christ taught because... MAN: Well, I don't want to lose those people in my church.

Then I won't have a church anymore.

WOMAN: Before you said that I shouldn't compromise.

MAN: That's what I'm saying... WOMAN: All right, but then when I said that I didn't see how you could betray someone's race and you'd say, I'd be compromising my race or something.

Well, then what's the difference?

I mean, if the minister who's gone to seminary and everything, and he's pledged to teach the Word of Christ to his congregation, and I mean, if he is too afraid to stand up and do it, I mean, how can he call himself a minister?

MAN: He can't.

I'm agreeing with you.

He's betraying his congregation, then.

He's betraying himself.

He's betraying God.

(handballs bouncing) (overlapping voices) ERNIE: Well, if you listen and try to do something, you'll get kicked out of church.

PASTOR: See, it could be honest if you were to say it, but it's not dishonest to refrain... ERNIE: See, that's the way your people are.

If you sincerely believe everything you say, "Don't tell it to a Black man because you're in the wrong uniform."

You go among your own people and you say to them... MAN: Too late.

MAN 2: What you say to us, and then when they shoot you... MAN 3: The tension became a stumbling block.

ERNIE: You come back with your battle scars and show us and say, "I've talked to them."

MAN 3: I think there has to be a more general approach to this thing.

ERNIE: They won't accept me.

MAN 4: What I call diplomatic... ERNIE: Because your people are what they are, they won't accept you either, but there are Negros... MAN: Don't mention that you just tolerate it.

This is a minister that's totally committed whether he's White or Black.

MAN 2: And educate our members.

MAN 3: Church is unnecessary.

The church is out there in the streets.

MAN 4: Why be so revolutionary?

MAN 5: Even you being in the faith committed.

(overlapping chatter).

MAN: Pastor, how are you?

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Very good.

It's nice to see you again.

I saw you... MAN 2: The whole thing came to a head here about a week ago when a power structure within the group, within the church forced him to resign.

WOMAN: We go to a meeting Tuesday night and we're told we don't want the preacher.

And we all looked at each other and we couldn't understand it.

And we thought, "How could this little tiny group go and say for the whole church, 'We don't want you'?"

WOMAN 2: This is the thing.

People have called and complained because they have complaints.

But we who agreed with our pastor, we didn't have any reason to call and complain.

MAN: Here's a man that tried to do something to make the church something besides, you know, stone and stained glass windows and air conditioned sanctuary.

RAY: The people have said, "The church used to be so peaceful before Bill Youngdahl came."

The stained glass windows, the music, this all adds to the service.

JUNE: The stained glass windows, too.

RAY: Granted, honey, this all adds to the worship service.

I'm not condemning it.

I'm not condemning it.

But this isn't the peace that Christ was talking about.

This is the wrapping paper.

WOMAN: As far as I can see, Pastor Youngdahl has just, has preached love of humanity.

MAN: I'm not as much concerned about what happened to Bill Youngdahl in Augustana Lutheran Church as a congregation, as I am in what I see this representing as the church.

RAY: My only point is, I think we should try new ways, June.

I think we've got to communicate.

We haven't.

We look back and we say, "We've been so perfect."

(cries).

JUNE: I know, I've got answers, but I can't explain 'em now.

MAN: How do you get something done?

Where do we go?

I'm frankly, more than upset, a little frightened.

JUNE: This has just gone on too long.

I can't do it.

(sniffs).

I can't.

(bright church music) (chorus singing).

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Little did I dream one week ago that I would resign as pastor of Augustana Lutheran Church.

(chorus singing).

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: I was told that a group of members wanted a change of pastor.

They indicated that this was not a case of liking or disliking the pastor.

How was everything?

MAN: Fine, thank you.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: The word mismatch was used.

Happy New Year, Judy.

I was told that people were staying away from church because they do not want to hear what I am saying.

Okay, you're gonna make it, though.

JACK: Oh yeah.

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Happy New Year, Jack.

The conclusion is that the Gospel as they conceive it was not being preached.

As I resign as pastor of Augustana, let me confess again my faith in a God who calls men to be in a company of the committed.

That our obedience is to the Christ who stands as always in the hectic confusion of the marketplaces of the world.

That our ministry is centered not in the midst of stained glass windows, but in the areas of life where men reach out for justice, love, and understanding.

(church music continues) PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: That I have not made this clear to some of you is apparent, but I have proclaimed the Gospel as I have been led to proclaim it.

And who is to deny that God expresses his Word through a person uniquely?

(singing continues).

PASTOR YOUNGDAHL: Certainly, God does not intend a man to be phony, speaking only those things that he thinks people want to hear.

I ask that you accept tonight my resignation as pastor of Augustana Lutheran Church.

PASTOR: All right, so this proves my point that we had the response tonight because there is a controversy now, and it's brought out an expression from people.

So it's not his preaching alone that did it.

The dramatic resignation prompted people to reassess themselves as to the ministry of the church.

RAY: Absolutely.

PASTOR: And it took only, it took the dramatic resignation to get people to think.

RAY: Well, to get me to think, and where was I?

Where was I backing Bill Youngdahl when the board had, uh, shrugged their shoulders, uh, knowingly that we were going to meet with Hope Lutheran uh, and talk about these interracial visits?

Do you recall this?

You didn't tell us not to do it.

It was on, and we were left with wrestling with this, Ted and I, and we didn't have the gumption to follow through.

We were told, Ted and I, that if we suggest this, we're going to split this church wide open simply because we're asking Lutherans to meet Lutherans in their homes.

Take this out of my mind and then show me that this is irrelevant to the situation.

MATT: No one has ever said this is wrong.

No one has ever said it not, not be done.

But you must put one more thing in here.

When that suggestion came out, the timing was absolutely bad.

MAN: But you're still saying the same thing.

Let's talk about it.

MATT: No, I'm not.

MAN: But show me something.

Show me a concrete result.

Show me a concrete, forward step.

Show me something that has resulted.

PASTOR: Yes, there's been a regression.

There has been a regression.

I... RAY: But the situation is becoming more urgent.

That's what the regression is.

The Civil Rights Law was passed.

It is a fact that it is against the law to close the doors of this church.

We can be fined by the United States government or imprisoned for closing the doors to colored people today, can we not?

PASTOR: Ray, this church's doors will never be closed to colored people, never.

RAY: In our hearts.

PASTOR: Physically, I agree with you.

RAY: In our hearts.

MATT: Physically, I agree with you.

RAY: No one's going out there and putting a padlock... PASTOR: But I question in reality... RAY: But until we as Christians accept them in our hearts.

MAN: Right.

RAY: And help them.

MAN: They won't come.

PASTOR: And Ray, let's be specific now.

What can you do then?

You can continue to minister to these people hoping that they will change their hearts, and this you must do.

Now the question is, what is the most strategic way to get people to change their hearts?

How do you do this?

This is the burning question and the issue that stands before this church today.

RAY: But when... PASTOR: You're committed.

How do you get other people to have the same commitment that you do?

RAY: I think this is the issue that when you stand before Jesus Christ and admit within your heart you are a sinner, that you've got this area that you cannot cope with because you have a hard time loving and accepting these people, you must confess that you are wrong in the sight of God.

And then someone comes along and pats your shoulder and say, "Now wait a minute, you're not all wrong, let's compromise.

You know, Christ might be a little bit wrong and let's come together a little bit in the middle and make a nice package because, you know, we need the money for the church and this and that."

No, we've got to make a clean cut when you stand before Christ as an individual.

This congregation seemed to think corporately, we're gonna go up and knock on the pearly gates and say, "Hey, hey, the group from Augustana's here.

Oh, swing open the gates."

MATT: Well Ray, how many colored folks have you brought into the church?

RAY: Me?

I'm scared to death.

ALL: Why?

RAY: Why?

I have but understood this problem two short weeks.

Two weeks, I am just such an infant that I, I know nothing other than the urgency that is there.

PASTOR: All right, now you see the urgency, Ray.

Now it behooves you to, Ray, remember it took you, I don't know how old you are, so many years to get to this point.

Other people have not reached this point.

They are not gonna get to it overnight.

They're not gonna get to... RAY: There isn't many more nights left.

PASTOR: All right, what about that night would've come before you changed, then?

MATT: Cannot evaluate the intangible change in people.

All we can do is evaluate the tangible once it takes effect.

RAY: Let me ask you, what is my position right here?

For example, this Missouri Lutheran thing came in the house the other day.

They start out by quoting Martin Luther, "Here I stand," that he takes a stand, and then it goes on talking.

"In the experience of every child of God, there comes a time when the, you must take the one alone stand against the stand the world has taken.

Where are you gonna meet this?

You're gonna meet it on the college campus.

You're gonna meet on the streets, on the factory.

And guess where else, you're gonna meet it in your church.

And what must you do?

You must take the stand."

PASTOR: Absolutely.

RAY: All right, now what do I?

Where do I go from here?

PASTOR: Take your stand.

Drag on this thing.

RAY: I got these publications.

They get me too excited.

They get me too steeped up with doing something.

(uplifting guitar music with female voice singing) ♪ The power in me somewhere ♪ ♪ A power to set me free ♪ ♪ I know it's there ♪ ♪ A power to tear down walls ♪ ♪ Hear every voice that calls ♪ ♪ Let me find the power ♪ ♪ The power in me ♪ ♪ There is a brother in me somewhere ♪ ♪ I've got to set him free ♪ ♪ I know he's there ♪ ♪ He'll set my soul aflame if I can find his name ♪ ♪ Let him speak the brother in me ♪ ♪ There is a song in me somewhere ♪ ♪ Of peace and harmony ♪ ♪ I know it's there ♪ ♪ A song to fill the air for people everywhere ♪ ♪ Let me find the song ♪ ♪ The song in me ♪ ♪ There is a fire in me somewhere ♪ ♪ A fire to set me free ♪ ♪ I know it's there ♪ ♪ Let it fill my hands ♪ ♪ Let it sweep the land ♪ ♪ Let me find the fire ♪ ♪ The fire in me ♪ ♪ There is a power in me somewhere ♪ ♪ A power to set me free ♪ ♪ I know it's there ♪ ♪ A part to tear down walls ♪ ♪ Hear every voice that calls ♪ ♪ Let me find the power ♪ ♪ The power in me ♪♪