>> TEMPERATURES >> ARE DROPPING, WHICH FOR MANY MEANS THEATER SEASON HAS ARRIVED.

BUT MANY OF THOSE THEATERS HAVE GONE DARK AND OTHERS ARE HAVING TROUBLE FILLING THEIR HOUSES.

A NEW REPORT COMMISSIONED BY CHICAGO'S DEPARTMENT OF CULTURAL AFFAIRS AND SPECIAL EVENTS HAS SOME SCARY DATA THEATER.

ATTENDANCE HAS DROPPED BY 60% IN THE LAST 4 YEARS, FORCING BELOVED AND RESPECTED THEATERS LIKE STEPPENWOLF AND LOOKING GLASS TO LAY OFF STAFF AND SUSPEND PRODUCTIONS.

AND JOINING US TO DISCUSS LIVE THEATER, STRUGGLES AND POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS ARE AARON HARKEY COMMISSIONER CHICAGO'S DEPARTMENT OF CULTURAL AFFAIRS AND SPECIAL EVENTS AND CHRIS JONES, CHIEF THEATER CRITIC FOR THE CHICAGO TRIBUNE JOINS ALSO SERVES AS THE TRIBUNE'S EDITORIAL PAGE EDITOR.

VERY GLAD TO HAVE BOTH OF YOU HERE.

FIRST COMMISSIONER ARE KEY.

NEARLY 60% DROP IN ATTENDANCE AT THEATERS RIGHT NOW.

THEN BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, HOW DIRE IS THE SITUATION FOR THEATERS?

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S SOMETHING WE DEFINITELY NEED TO PAY ATTENTION WE DEFINITELY HAVE SEEN IN THE NEWS AND OUR FANS AND THE MEDIA HAVE DONE A GREAT JOB REPORTING THE CONTRACTIONS WITHIN THE INDUSTRY.

A SUSPENSION OF PRODUCTIONS AND THAT THE LAYOFFS.

SO THE DATA REPORT IS REALLY JUST ABOUT PROVIDING SORT OF BROADER CONTEXT THAT THESE ARE IN A FLUKE.

IT REALLY IS A SYSTEMWIDE CHALLENGE.

SO WE ARE, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO DO THE BEST THAT WE CAN TO MAKE SURE THAT WE PROVIDE THE SUPPORT THAT OUR THEATERS AND CHRIS JONES, YOU'VE WRITTEN THAT LAST 4 YEARS HAS BEEN A BLOODBATH, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, TO.

>> CONTRA GOING IS BACK TO PRE-PANDEMIC LEVELS.

WE TAYLOR SWIFT DID IN CHICAGO.

WHY NOT LIVE THEATER?

WELL, IT'S A VEXING QUESTION.

AND I THINK THIS IS A COMPLICATED QUESTION.

THERE ARE MANY, MANY DIFFERENT >> REASONS FOR IT.

I HEAR A DRUM BEAT FROM READERS ABOUT WHY THEY DON'T WANT TO GO BACK TO THAT DATA.

SOME OF THEM MENTION WORRIES ABOUT GOING DOWNTOWN, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH A LOT OF OLDER AUDIENCE FOCUS ON.

I ALSO THINK PEOPLE OBVIOUSLY STARTED STREAMING JOINING THE PANDEMIC AND TELEVISIONS GOT A LOT BETTER.

AND FOR A LOT OF THE IT IS DRAMA THAT'S PROVIDED A KIND OF NEW COMPETITION.

AND I THINK PEOPLE GOT OUT OF THE HABIT LITTLE BIT OF GOING TO.

SO IT'S YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALSO BEEN A BIT OF A SORT OF SYSTEMIC CONTRACTION THAT THOSE OF US IN THE MEDIA, FRANKLY, A SORT OF FAMILIAR WITH.

IT'S JUST PEOPLE ON THE PHONES A LOT THESE DAYS AND NOT CONSUMING THEATER IN QUITE THE SAME WHEN I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY THE WHOLE LIKE SOCIAL MEDIA BEING ON YOUR PHONE, WATCHING SHORT CLIPS AND THINGS LIKE TIKTOK GETS HURT.

>> I THINK ALL MEDIA BUT A LIVE PERFORMANCE, ESPECIALLY SO COMMISSIONER HARKEY, HOW DO YOU KICK START TO GETTING PEOPLE BACK INTO THE AUDIENCE?

>> WELL, I YOU KNOW, RELEASING THIS DATA REPORT WAS REALLY GREAT BECAUSE WE WERE ABLE TO GET THE INFORMATION OUT.

ARE ALSO LAUNCHING A THEATER SEASON CAMPAIGN WITH TO CHICAGO TO GET PEOPLE EXCITED ABOUT THE 150 PLUS SHOWS THAT ARE GOING ON IN CHICAGO RIGHT NOW.

SO I THINK PEOPLE HAVE TO JUST RE EXERCISE THAT MUSCLE RIGHT AND JUST STARTS BY BUYING A TICKET TO A SHOW.

IT'S GOING TO BE GOOD FOR YOU AT THE END.

AND THEN AT THE END OF THE DAY, RIGHT?

SO THIS IS A A POSITIVE EXPERIENCE FOR YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO SPEND SOME TIME WITH A LOVED ONE, YOU KNOW, AND SEE SOMETHING THAT'S GOING EXPAND HER MIND.

SO WE WANT PEOPLE TO STAY KIND GET IN THE HABIT.

AGAIN, CHRIS SHOWS ARE SOME THEATERS THAT DIDN'T MIND EXPANDING WORK, THAT THEY'RE THEY'RE GONE RIGHT NOW.

I MEAN, HOW TRAGIC IS THAT?

AND WHAT'S STATUS FOR SOME OF THESE OTHER BIG THEATERS?

WELL, I THINK SOMETHING THAT IS OF DISSIPATE SOMETHING IT IS A PRODUCING A LOT LESS LIGHT.

>> I'VE BEEN GOING MOST EVERY NIGHT OF MY LIFE 25 OR 2.

>> PROFESSIONAL THEATER IN CHICAGO.

SO I SORT OF HAVE IN MY HEAD WHAT THE SCHEDULE USED TO BE THIS TIME OF YEAR.

AND THIS NO QUESTION THAT IS, YOU KNOW, 30, 40, 50% FEWER SHOWS.

BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS REALLY THIS MOMENT AND HOW IT'S ABOUT.

I THINK REMINDING PEOPLE THAT DATA DOES REALLY COOL WAYS TO SPEND AN EVENING AND THIS SOMETHING ABOUT LIVE DOT IS THAT COMBER REPLICATED ON TELEVISION.

YOU MENTIONED LIKE THE HOUSE, THE AIR.

THAT WAS A GREAT.

THAT'S THAT'S THAT'S BIG LOSS.

I MEAN, CHICAGO HAS THESE GREAT IT IS THAT ONCE THEY'VE GONE THE DIFFICULT TO, YOU KNOW, BRING BITE.

>> BUT IT IS A REASON TO LIVE HERE.

CROSS THE YES.

PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS SAID TO ME HOW PROUD THEY ARE OF CHICAGO THEATER EVEN WHEN THEY DON'T GO.

THEY SAY THAT PROUD OF IT.

AND NOW I SORT OF TURN AROUND AND GO WELL.

HAVE YOU SEEN?

BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T GO, IT MIGHT NOT EXIST.

SO THAT IS A A BIG FACTOR.

I IT'S ALWAYS FELT LIKE A FEATHER IN OUR CAP.

SO COMMISSIONER HARKEY, YOU KNOW, THE CITY IS DEALING WITH A BUDGET GAP RIGHT NOW.

IS THERE MORE PUBLIC THAT CAN SUPPORT SOME SOME OF THESE THEATERS.

>> WELL, THE MAYOR IS GOING TO BUDGET ADDRESS ON WEDNESDAY.

SO I DO I WANT DO WANT TO GET AHEAD OF THAT.

BUT I CAN SAY THAT WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO THE KIND OF COMMITMENT THAT WE'VE MADE HISTORICALLY OVER THE YEARS AND IN TERMS OF GRANT FUNDING OTHER SERVICES THAT WE PROVIDE CAPACITY BUILDING TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE.

WE KNOW THAT THE UTTERS A PRIORITY PRIORITY BECAUSE THE DATA HAS TOLD US THAT.

SO THERE DEFINITELY ARE GOING TO BE, I THINK SOME SPECIAL RESOURCES FOR THEATERS.

SO YEAH, YOU KNOW, TO CONTINUE CONTINUING TO PROVIDE THE RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE.

I FOR THEATER.

AND I THINK SOME SPECIAL RESOURCES GOING FORWARD.

THE CHRIS JONES, THE OTHER FINANCIAL PRONG HERE FOR THEATERS OR ANY NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION, FUNDRAISING, PHILANTHROPIC, GIVING.

>> I'M GETTING FROM WEALTHY DONORS ARE ORGANIZATIONS AND THAT'S BEEN RELATIVELY FLAT OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS.

HOW COME THAT HASN'T YOU KNOW THAT.

I THINK YOU SEE THE IMPACT OF INFLATION SOME WAYS BECAUSE PEOPLE ATTENDING TO GIVE THE REPORTS THAT >> PEOPLE ATTENDING TO GIVE IT THE SAME LEVEL.

THEY'RE RIDING THE SAME CHECK TO THESE NONPROFIT ORGANIZATIONS THAT THEY WROTE BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.

AND AS WE ALL KNOW, THE REALITY IS THAT'S BUYING 2025% LAST.

PLUS, THE FACT COSTS OVERALL WITHIN PRODUCTION HAVE GREATLY INCREASED.

SO IT'S NOT THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT GIVING ANY MORE.

IT'S MORE THAT THAT GIVING IT THE SAME OLD LEVEL THAT DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME IMPACT.

SO I MEAN, ON THE SIMPLE TO THAT IS SOME PEOPLE WHO CAN AFFORD IT.

GOING TO HAVE TO UP THAT GIVING BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY WAY THESE ORGANIZATIONS GOING TO SURVIVE.

I THINK.

BUT ORGANIZATIONS THEMSELVES, THIS PART OF IT, THIS IS ON THEM TOO.

THEY HAVE TO DO SHOWS THAT PEOPLE WANT TO GO AND SEE THE END OF THE DAY.

YOU BUY A TICKET TO SEE SOMETHING THEY CARE ABOUT THAT YOU WANT TO SEE.

YOU DON'T BUY A TICKET TO SOMETHING YOU DON'T WANT TO SAY.

AND THERE ALWAYS ARE.

THOSE SHOWS THAT DOES CREATE THAT BUZZ THAT EVERYBODY NEEDS TO GO SEE LIKE HAMILTON OR SOMETHING COMING BACK INTO TOWN.

SO COMMISSIONER HARKEY, IS THERE SOMETHING THAT THAT FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF CULTURAL AFFAIRS?

>> DO YOU HAVE A ROLE IN ENCOURAGING PRIVATE UPFRONT, PHILANTHROPY, PRIVATE GIVERS TO IT TO HELP THAT STEP UP TO THE PLATE.

YEAH, I THINK, YOU KNOW, EVER SINCE THE PANDEMIC, WE'VE ACTUALLY DONE A GOOD JOB OF WORKING COLLECTIVELY TOGETHER, WHICH MEANS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE KIND OF LIMITED RESOURCES THAT WE MIGHT HAVE INDIVIDUALLY, IF WE CAN PULL IN THE SAME DIRECTION, YOU KNOW, THOSE DOLLARS HAVE MORE OF AN IMPACT.

SO WE DEFINITELY HAVE BEEN HAVING, YOU KNOW, CONVERSATIONS ABOUT HOW TO YOU KNOW, AVAILABLE RESOURCES SO WE CAN KIND OF PULL PULL THE SHIP AND THEN THE SAME SO I'M OPTIMISTIC ABOUT WHAT THAT KIND OF COLLABORATION MIGHT LOOK LIKE IN THE FUTURE YOU KNOW, SUPPORT THEATERS AT THIS TIME.

THE CHRIS JONES THAT, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE BUSINESS SPOT IN THE PAST ALWAYS BEEN A LOCK PEOPLE INTO THESE FULL SEASON OR MULTI SHOW SUBSCRIPTION PACKAGES NOW WORKING THAT'S DROPPED 65% OVER THE LAST 4 YEARS.

SO HOW DID YOU NEED TO CHANGE THAT BUSINESS MODEL?

THAT'S TED.

THAT'S JUST DEAD IN THE WORLD OF PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO COMMIT LIKE THAT ANYMORE.

THAT WAS A PREVIOUS GENERATION, I THINK.

AND IN THE DAYS OF >> VARIABLE PRICING, WHEN YOU CAN GO ON MIGHT SEAT GEEK.

THIS ALL OF THESE DISCOUNTS GAMES FOR GETTING BETTER TICKETS.

THE HOT THAT MOTIVE SELLING IS JUST NOT HAPPENING ANYMORE.

EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE STILL SUBSCRIBERS WHO REALLY CARE ABOUT THE STATE IS.

BUT I KNOW I THINK THE WHOLE BUSINESS MODEL TO SOME DEGREE IS BROKEN AND IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE REINVENTED IN THE FACE OF ALL CURRENT SITUATION.

AND THIS A BIT OF A WAKE-UP CALL THIS IS A DIFFICULT QUESTION TO ASK YOU, THOUGH, BUT IT'S SOME OF THIS JUST CULTURAL ATTITUDES CHANGING YOUNGER GENERATIONS WERE THEATER DOESN'T MEAN QUITE AS MUCH TO THEM AS IT HAS TO PREVIOUS GENERATIONS.

AND THEY JUST HAVE ALL THESE OTHER MODES OF ENTERTAINMENT.

I THINK SOME TRUTH TO THAT.

BUT I MEAN, THAT'S SOMEBODY MY AGE IS ALWAYS I GOING TO ADMIT THAT BECAUSE I BELIEVE SO POWERFULLY AND SO STRONGLY IN THE POWER OF THE THEATER AND THE ABILITY TO JUST SIT WITH YOUR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS AND WATCH A REALLY GREAT SHOW.

YOU KNOW, THE PHONE DOESN'T DO THAT FROM A MUCH AS I'M THOSE OBSESSED AS ANYBODY ELSE.

BUT I SEE PEOPLE TWITCH WHEN THEY HAVE TO TURN OFF THE PHONE.

I MEAN, I THINK THERE CHANGES.

THE KEY IS TO ADAPT ITS AGAIN, LIKE A MEDIA ORGANIZATION.

THE STATE IS HAVE TO ADAPT TO THESE NEW REALITIES AND IT'S PAINFUL IN SOME CASES BECAUSE CHANGE IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR THAT.

THERE ARE SUCCESS.

STORIES ARE STICKING OF TOMMY, THAT WITH THAT WAS A RECENT SUCCESS STORY BECAUSE IT WAS LIKE SUCH A MULTIMEDIA.

HAVE AGAIN TO THE MUSIC AND THE SPECIAL EFFECTS AND THE VIDEO AND THE SHOW AND PEOPLE JUST LOVED IT.

AND IT DID REALLY WELL.

SO THERE ARE SUCCESS STORIES RIGHT NOW.

>> BECAUSE YOU'RE HARKEY.

HOW IMPORTANT IS A THRIVING THEATER SCENE TO JUST OVERALL RECOVERY DOWNTOWN?

>> WELL, IT'S EXTREMELY YOU KNOW, THE ARTS ARE REALLY AN ECONOMIC SORT OF MULTIPLIER.

SO THEIR BILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY IN CHICAGO, THEY'RE PART OF THE REASON WHY PEOPLE COME TO VISIT THE CITY.

SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE CONTRACTION YOU KNOW, THE THEATER SECTOR, WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WITH THE ECONOMIC IMPLICATIONS OF THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, IT'S A LOSS OF YOU KNOW, OUR COMMUNITIES LOSE IMPORTANT.

CULTURAL ANCHORS THAT ARE ECONOMIC DRIVERS FOR ACTIVITY IN THOSE COMMUNITIES.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT IS AS MUCH A SORT OF CULTURAL AND ARTS PRICES OF THAT AS IT IS AN ECONOMIC, YOU KNOW, A CRISIS.

SO WE NEED TO SORT OF PAY ATTENTION TO IT ON ON MULTIPLE LEVELS VACCINE AND WE'RE ALL PROUD OF THE CHICAGO, THE THEATER TOWN.

SO.

>> THE SOLUTION IS THAT EVERYONE NEEDS TO, I GUESS,