♪♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO." HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

ISRAEL, UNDER MOUNTING PRESSURE TO PAUSE AS DEATHS IN GAZA ESCALATE, I GET THE VIEW FROM JORDAN'S FOREIGN MINISTER, AYMAN SAFADI AFTER CRUCIAL MEETINGS WITH SECRETARY OF STATE, ANTONY BLINKEN.

AND UNDER THE RADAR, REPORTING ON THE VIOLENCE IN THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK.

>>> ALSO AHEAD, A FORMER IDF SOLDIER BRINGS US HIS EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT HOW THE LAST GAZA INVASION CHANGED HIM FOLD-OVER.

>>> PLUS, TWO PROFESSORS TALK ABOUT HOW AMERICAN COLLEGE CAMPUSES HAVE BEEN A FLASH POINT AND HOW THEY ARE TRYING TO BRIDGE THE DIVIDE.

>>> "AMANPOUR & CO." IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

SETON J. MELVIN.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

10,000, NEARLY HALF OF THEM CHILDREN.

NOT EVEN THE STAUNCHEST ALLY SEEMS ABLE TO CONVINCE THEM OF THAT HUMANITARIAN TRACK.

PRESIDENT BIDEN SPOKE TO NETANYAHU BY PHONE TODAY AFTER THE SECRETARY OF STATE, ANTONY BLINKEN, SPENT THE WEEKEND CRISSCROSSING THE REGION FOR URGENT TALKS IN TEL AVIV, WEST BANK AND HE CONCLUDED TODAY IN TURKEY.

>> WE KNOW THE DEEP CONCERN HERE FOR THE TERRIBLE TOLL THAT GAZA IS TAKING ON PALESTINIANS ON, MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN, IN GAZA AND CIVILIANS, A CONCERN THAT WE SHARE AND THAT WE'RE WORKING ON EVERY SINGLE DAY.

WE'VE ENGAGED THE ISRAELIS ON STEPS THAT THEY CAN TAKE TO MINIMIZE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES.

>> ISRAELI OFFICIALS ARE REJECTING ANY PAUSE SAYING THAT WOULD ONLY BENEFIT HAMAS AFTER 1400, MOSTLY CIVILIANS, FOUR WEEKS AGO.

LISTEN TO THIS FROM ISRAEL'S AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS.

>> THERE IS NO HUMANITARIAN CRISIS IN GAZA IN COORDINATION WITH THE U.S. AND THE U.N., WE ALLOWED A NUMBER OF TRUCKS ENTERING GAZA NOW WITH FOOD AND MEDICINE TO REACH ALMOST 100 TRUCKS EVERY DAY, SO WE DON'T SEE THE NEED FOR HUMANITARIAN PAUSES RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IT WILL ONLY ENABLE HAMAS TO REARM AND REGROUP AND PREVENT US FROM ACHIEVING OUR GOAL, TO DESTROY HAMAS'S TERRORIST CAPABILITIES.

>> SO HOW IS THAT BEING RECEIVED AROUND THE WORLD, ESPECIALLY IN ARAB CAPITALS AND ON THE STREETS?

JORDAN'S FOREIGN MINISTER AYMAN SAFADI MET WITH THEM THIS WEEKEND AND NOW AT EU HEADQUARTERS TRYING TO PRESS FOR GETTING MORE AID INTO GAZA.

JORDAN SAYS IT'S DELIVERING AID ITSELF NOW.

ITS AIR FORCE DROPPED MEDICAL AID INTO GAZA INTO A HOSPITAL EARLY THIS MORNING.

FOREIGN MINISTER, WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM.

CAN I FIRST START BY ASKING YOU, IT MUST HAVE TAKEN SOME COORDINATION AND QUITE A DELIBERATE STANCE TO START AIR DROPPING INTO GAZA.

IS THIS A ONE OFF OR ARE YOU GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO IT?

>> WELL, IT DID TAKE SOME COORDINATION, CHRISTIANE.

WE DROPPED ESSENTIAL SUPPLIES TO A FIELD HOSPITAL WE'VE HAD IN GAZA SINCE 2009.

OBVIOUSLY THOSE SUPPLIES WOULD ONLY LAST FOR SO LONG GIVEN THE ENORMITY OF THE HUMANITARIAN CHALLENGE THERE IS.

WE HOPE NOT ONLY WILL WE BE ABLE TO DO MORE OF THAT, BUT THAT ALL OF US IN THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY COME TOGETHER TO PRESSURE FOR DELIVERING THE NECESSITY SUPPLIES TO GAZA BECAUSE CONTRARY TO WHAT THE ISRAELI REP U.N. JUST SAID THERE IS A HUMANITARIAN CATASTROPHIC.

IF HE DOESN'T SEE THAT I CAN ONLY EXPLAIN THIS BY SAYING IT SEEMS HE DOESN'T SEE PALESTINIANS AS HUMANS, TALKING ABOUT 100 TRUCKS WHEN THE AVERAGE BEFORE THIS WAR STARTED WAS ABOUT 500 TRUCKS PER DAY AND THEN THAT WAS NOT ENOUGH.

JUST TO SAY THERE'S NO HUMANITARIAN CATASTROPHIC IN GAZA SPEAKS TO THE COMPLETE BLINDNESS OF THIS PERSON TO WHAT'S HAPPENING IN GAZA.

>> BUT CLEARLY ALSO WHAT HE'S SAYING DOESN'T MATCH REALITY BECAUSE YOU OBVIOUSLY HAD TO COORDINATE WITH ISRAEL, SO THE ISRAELI MILITARY AND ISRAELI GOVERNMENT HAD TO PRESUMABLY ACKNOWLEDGE THERE IS A HUMANITARIAN CATASTROPHIC NO MATTER WHAT THE U.N.

AMBASSADOR SAYS.

>> WE'D LIKE TO SEE THE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT TRANSLATED INTO EFFECTIVE IMPACTFUL ACTION ON THE GROUND.

PEOPLE ARE DYING FROM THE ISRAELI BOMBS BUT THEY'RE ALSO DYING FROM THE LACK OF WATER, THE LACK OF MEDICINE, THE VERY VERY DANGEROUS SITUATION AT HOSPITALS WHERE A LOT OF THEM ARE SIMPLY NOT FUNCTIONING BEYOND THE BASIC BASIC ESSENTIAL.

SO IF THERE IS THIS ACKNOWLEDGEMENT WE'D LIKE TO SEE THAT TRANSLATED IN REAL ACTION THAT DOES EVEN BEGIN TO ADDRESS THE, THE, THE CATASTROPHIC SITUATION WE HAVE IN GAZA.

>> FOREIGN MINISTER, YOU'RE WITH KING ABDULLAH IN EU HEADQUARTERS.

WHAT HAVE YOU MANAGED TO EXTRACT FROM THEM IN TERMS OF STRONGER HUMANITARIAN DELIVERIES?

TELL ME WHAT THE MISSION IS FOR JORDAN THERE IN BRUSSELS RIGHT NOW.

>> WELL, WE JUST ARRIVED, AS I SAID HIS MAJESTY IS HERE, WE JUST MET WITH THE BELGIAN PRIME MINISTER, THE SECRETARY-GENERAL OF NATO.

TOMORROW, THERE WILL BE MEETINGS AT THE EU AND OUR MESSAGE IS CLEAR AND SIMPLE, THIS WAR ON GAZA HAS TO STOP, CEASE-FIRE IS A MUST AND DELIVERY OF HUMANITARIAN SUPPLIES IS A RESPONSIBILITY AS A HUMAN DUTY LEST A LEGAL OBLIGATION FROM ISRAEL AS AN OCCUPYING POWER.

AND WE ARE TRYING TO PUT THINGS IN CONTEXT WHY WE ARE HERE AND THE ONLY WAY OUT OF THIS NIGHTMARE, THIS CATASTROPHIC IS FOR THE WAR TO STOP AND THE NEEDS OF GAZANS WHO HAVE BEEN SUFFERING EVEN BEFORE THIS WAR STARTED BE ADDRESSED.

AND THEN WE ALL LOOK HOW WE CAN GET TO A SITUATION WHERE WHAT HAPPENED NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.

THAT CAN ONLY HAPPEN THROUGH A PEACE PLAN THAT WOULD FULFILL THE RIGHTS OF THE PALESTINIANS TO FREEDOM AND WILL ADDRESS THE ISRAELI CONCERNS AS WELL.

>> I WILL GET TO THE PEACE PLAN IN A MOMENT.

FIRST, OBVIOUSLY, JORDAN IS ONE OF THE FIRST TWO COUNTRIES, TWO ARAB COUNTRIES, NEIGHBORS, TO MAKE PEACE WITH ISRAEL, GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE MID-90s.

NOW, WE'VE GOT PAST 10,000 DEATHS IN GAZA ACCORDING TO THE AUTHORITIES THERE, THE HAMAS AUTHORITIES, HALF OF THEM NEARLY CHILDREN.

PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS SPOKEN TO PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU AND BLINKEN HAS BEEN SPEAKING TO PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU AND HERTZOG OVER THE WEEKEND.

WHAT DID HE TELL YOU?

THEY SAID FORGET IT, NO PAUSE OR CEASE-FIRE BECAUSE THAT WILL JUST ENABLE HAMAS?

>> I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY ALL OF US ARE TRYING TO END THIS SANITY.

SADLY, TRAGICALLY, THIS IS ISRAELI GOVERNMENT IS NOT LISTENING.

IT DOES BELIEVE IT HAS THE RIGHT TO GO AND DESTROY ALL OF GAZA.

WE SAW AN ISRAELI MINISTER YESTERDAY, A SITTING MINISTER, MINISTER OF CULTURE CALLING FOR IT AND THOROUGHFARE DESTROYING GAZA.

THIS IS REFLECTIVE WHAT WE'VE SEEN NOT JUST NOW BUT OVER THE YEARS.

ISRAEL ACTED ON THE ASSUMPTION IT CAN IGNORE THAT THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED THE PALESTINIAN ISSUE THAT IS OVER THE PALESTINIAN ISSUE AND MAKE REGIONAL PEACE AND THIS WAR SHOCKINGLY, TRAGICALLY, SADLY, WITH ALL THE CASUALTIES IT HAS BROUGHT, IS SAYING THAT THIS ASSUMPTION IS SIMPLY ILLOGICAL, IT WILL NOT FLY.

BASICALLY, ISRAEL IS SAYING, NO, AND IT WILL HAVE TO SHOW THE RESPONSIBILITY OF ITS ACTIONS.

IT IS COMMITTING WAR CRIMES IN GASO DPZ, IT IS CREATING A SEA OF HATRED TO DEFINE GENERATIONS TO COME.

YES, WE DID HAVE A PEACE TREATY TO ISRAEL BECAUSE OUR COMMITMENT TO PEACE IS UNWAVERING BECAUSE WE BELIEVE PEACE IS THE ONLY WAY TO GUARANTEE THE SAFETY OF PALESTINIANS AND ISRAELIS AND BREAK AWAY FROM THE VICIOUS CYCLE OF WARS.

AND ISRAEL IS DOING IS GIVEN WHERE PUBLIC OPINION IS RIGHT NOW WOULD BE A DOCUMENT COLLECTING DUST.

% DO YOU FORESEE ANY WORK NOW TO WHAT WE ALL WANTED TO WORK FOR REGIONAL COOPERATION, REGIONAL INTEGRATION.

HOW CAN YOU EXPECT AN AREA BOILING NOW AND DESTROYING INNOCENTS AND HOSPITALS AND EVERY TENANT OF INTERNATIONAL LAW WANTS PEACE.

ISRAEL IS PUTTING US ALL IN THIS SPOT WE NEVER WANTED TO BE AND WANT US TO BE IN AND IT'S DRIVEN BY WHAT SEEMS TO BE A WEDGE, NOT LISTENING TO ITS FRIENDS, ITS ALLIES, THE U.S. AND EUROPE.

THAT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT HOW BLIND THEY ARE TO THE UGLY REALITY THEY'RE CREATING.

>> FIRST ABOUT THE HERITAGE MINISTER WHO TALKED ABOUT NEW KING GAZA, THE GOVERNMENT DID DISAVOW THAT, HE HAS BEEN SUSPENDED.

TO YOUR POINT ABOUT RAGE AND REVENGE, EVERY TIME WE ASK AN OFFICIAL ABOUT THAT, ISRAELI OFFICIAL THEY SAY IT'S NOT ABOUT RAGE AND REVENGE, MAKING SURE THOSE WHO SLAUGHTERED 1400 CIVILIANS MOSTLY WILL NEVER HAVE THE CAPACITY TO THREATEN ISRAEL AGAIN.

DO YOU GET THAT?

>> HONESTLY WE DON'T GET THAT.

WE ALL UNDERSTAND THE ENORMITY, PAIN INFLICTED ON ISRAEL ON OCTOBER 7.

WE CONDEMN THAT.

WE WILL NEVER ACCEPT THE KILLING OF CIVILIANS.

BUT KILLING 10,000 PALESTINIANS AND DISPLACING 4.1 MILLION AND DENYING THEM A DROP OF WATER OR PAINKILLER THAT IS NOT GOING TO GUARANTEE SECURITY FOR ISRAEL.

HAMAS IS FIGHTERS BUT HAMAS IS ALSO AN IDEA THAT WAS BORN IN THE CONDITIONS OF MISERY THAT THE OCCUPATION AND THE FAILURE BY THE WHOLE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TO SOLVE THIS CRISIS HAVE PUT US ON.

THE ONLY PATH TO GUARANTEEING THE SECURITY OF ALL, WHICH WE WANT, WHICH WE WORK THE DICKENS FOR, IS TO FIND A JUST PEACE THAT WILL FULFILL THE LEGITIMATE RIGHT OF PALESTINIANS AND ADDRESS THE LEGITIMATE CONCERNS OF ISRAEL.

THIS WAR IS NOT DOING THAT.

IT'S KILLING INNOCENT, IT'S KILLING WOMEN, CHILDREN.

YOU'VE SEEN THE IMAGES.

THOSE IMAGES ARE IN EVERY SITTING ROOM OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE, NOT JUST IN THE ARAB WORLD, ACROSS THE WHOLE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

LOOK AT THE REACTION OF THE UNITED STATES, YOU REFERRED TO CAMPUSES IN THE U.S. AND EUROPE, EVERYWHERE.

SIMPLY, THIS IS BRUTALITY AND UTTER INHUMANITY AND THAT WILL NOT PRODUCE PEACE.

SO, NO, WE DON'T GET IT.

>> ON CAMPUSES YOU HAVE ANTI-SEMITISM AND THREATS AND ISLAMOPHOBIA AND HEIGHTENED FEARS AND RIGHT NOW.

AND ON THE WEST BANK NEXT TO YOU IS MEANT TO BE PART OF A PALESTINIAN STATE.

RIGHT NOW THERE ARE TWO THINGS HAPPENING.

SETTLERS AND SOLDIERS ARE BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, THERE'S 150 PALESTINIANS DEAD ACCORDING TO AUTHORITIES ON THE WEST BANK AND THEY'VE BEEN MOVED AWAY FROM THEIR LAND IN SOME INSTANCES, SEVERAL HUNDRED.

DO YOU THINK THERE IS A DELIBERATE PLAN, AS MANY PEOPLE DO BELIEVE THAT THE SETTLERS WERE IN CHARGE ESSENTIALLY OF THE GOVERNMENT, ARE WANTING TO, UNDER THIS COVER, CREATE THEIR OWN IDEOLOGICAL END, TO HAVE THE WEST BANK TO THEMSELVES?

DO YOU BELIEVE NEED THE CASE OR JUST THE FALLOUT FROM THIS TERRIBLE WAR THAT'S GOING ON?

>> IF I MAY, FIRST, JUST SAY UNEQUIVOCALLY, WE ARE AGAINST ANTI-SEMITISM, WE ARE INTELLIGENCE ISLAMOPHOBIA.

WE CONDEMN THAT AND WARN AGAINST IT AND URGE ALL OF US TO COME TOGETHER AND REALLY CLEARLY SEE IT, THAT THIS IS NOT A MUSLIM-JEWISH WAR, THIS IS A WAR BETWEEN AN OCCUPIER AND OCCUPIED PEOPLE.

I WANT TO MAKE CLEAR WE HAVE BEEN WARNING AGAINST THIS CULTURE OF HATE.

WE CONDEMN ANTI-SEMITISM AS MUCH AS WE CONDEMN ISLAMOPHOBIA.

THAT BEING SAID, GOING TO THE WEST BANK, EVEN BEFORE THIS VICIOUS CYCLE OF VIOLENCE AND WAR STARTED, THERE'S BEEN A SYSTEMIC ISRAELI POLICY TO KILL ANY ASPIRATION FOR THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE FOR STATE HOOD.

PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU SAID IT HIMSELF, IN THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT YOU HAVE CABINET MINISTERS WHO UTTERLY OPENLY CALLED FOR WIPING OUT THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.

SETTLER TERRORISM, AND I'M CALLING IT SETTLER TERRORISM BECAUSE IT IS, HAS BEEN THERE FOR A WHILE AND WITH THIS NEW PROJECT CIRCUMSTANCES, WE'RE SEEING MORE OF THAT AND SEEING PEOPLE, SETTLERS ATTACKS INCREASING.

THIS YEAR BY THE WAY, IS THE BLOODIEST YEAR FOR PALESTINIANS IN THE WEST BANK IN OVER DECADES.

THIS SPEAKS AGAIN TO THE COMPLETE ABSENCE OF HORIZONS AND UNLEASHING OF SETTLERS BY CABINET MEMBERS WHO SPEAK THAT RHETORIC OF HATE, FUELING THAT KIND OF MOVEMENT.

YOU LOOK AT FACTS ON THE GROUND, THERE'S BEEN OVER 90,000 NEW SETTLERS COMING TO THE WEST BANK SINCE 2019, AREA C HAS BEEN COMPLETELY ALSO BEING INCREMENTALLY TAKEN AWAY FROM THE PALESTINIANS, SETTLER EXPANSION IS CONTINUING, THE AMOUNT OF SETTLER EXPANSION WE'VE SEEN OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS FOR DECADES AND CONSECRATION OF THE HOLY SITES ARE THE SAME.

THERE IS A GROUP WITHIN RECALL, RADICALS, RELIGIOUS ZIONISTS PUSHING FOR CONFRONTATION.

THAT DOES NOT HELP US, THAT DOES NOT HELP THE PALESTINIANS.

EVERYBODY NEEDS TO START THEIR RESPONSIBILITY HERE AND STOP THOSE KIND OF ACTIONS.

IF IT EXPLODES YOU'RE LOOKING AT A BROADER CONFLICT THAT WILL AFFECT EVERYBODY IN THE ARING, SO THAT HAS GOT TO STOP.

>> FINALLY, YOU TOOK ACTION TO BASICALLY PULL YOUR AMBASSADOR FROM ISRAEL AND THE ISRAEL AMBASSADOR IS NOT IN JORDAN.

TODAY, THE PRIME MINISTER HAS SAID ALL OPTIONS ARE ON THE TABLE FOR JORDAN IN DEALING WITH ISRAELI AGGRESSION.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> WHAT WE DID WE CALLED OUR AMBASSADOR AS A VERY BLUNT AND DIRECT MESSAGE WE ARE TOTALLY OPPOSED TO HAPPENING WE BELIEVE IT WILL NOT HELP ANYBODY IN THE REGION, NOT THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.

IT IS A MESSAGE THIS HAS GOT TO STOP.

WHAT WE SAID IS THAT WHATEVER WE BELIEVE WILL HELP END THIS MADNESS, WHATEVER WE BELIEVE WILL HELP BECAUSE OF PEACE WE DEDICATED YEARS OF EFFORTS WE WILL DO.

EVERYTHING IS ON THE TABLE, AS FAR AS WE BELIEVE IT WILL HELP US IN OUR EFFORTS TO END THIS WAR AND TO PUSH TOWARDS A COMPREHENSIVE JUST PEACE ONCE AND FOR ALL MAKE SURE WE NEVER ARE IN CONDITIONS WHERE PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS OR ANY CIVILIANS WILL HAVE TO LIVE IN THE INFERNO WE SEE UNFOLDING BEFORE OUR LIVES.

I WANT TO SAY TO ALL OUR PARTNERS AND FRIENDS IN THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY THEIR ISRAEL SHOULD ACT WITHIN THE REALM OF INTERNATIONAL LAW.

IT'S NOT.

IT'S NOT LISTENING TO THE ADVICE OF ITS FRIENDS AND GENUINE CALLS ACROSS THE WAY ABOUT THE WAR CRIMES.

AND IT IS A VIEW TO DECIDE WHERE WE GO FROM HERE.

CONTINUE WITH THIS WAR AND WE WILL PAY THE PRICE FOR GENERATIONS TO COME AND STOP THIS WAR AND SAY ENOUGH KILLING AND REALLY COME TOGETHER AND SAY WHAT IS THE PATH THAT WILL MAKE SURE THAT NONE OF US HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN.

THAT PATH IS PEACE.

WE'RE READY TO ENGAGE WITH ALL OUR PARTNERS TO START IMMEDIATELY ON THAT PATH.

ISRAEL IS NOT THERE YET.

IT HAS TO GET THERE OTHERWISE IT'S HURTING ITSELF AS MUCH AS HURTING EVERYBODY ELSE.

>> WE WILL DO OUR BEST TO PUT THAT TO THE PRIME MINISTER'S OFFICE TOMORROW.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US, PRIME MINISTER.

>>> WE'VE JUST BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS, SECRETARY BLINKEN WAS MEETING WITH THE PRESIDENT ABBAS AND WHO ALSO CALLED FOR IMMEDIATE CESSATION AMID ESCALATING VIOLENCE IN THE WEST BANK.

AT LEAST 150 PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED SINCE OCTOBER 7th BY ISRAEL FORCES OR IN SETTLER ATTACKS.

AS REPORTED PALESTINIANS ARE LIVING IN FEAR AS HUNDREDS HAVE ALREADY BEEN FORCED TO FLEE THEIR HOMES.

>> Reporter: ARMED AND THREATENING, THIS IS THIS FACE OF ISRAELI SETTLER VIOLENCE IN THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK.

IT'S THESE ACTS OF AGGRESSION WHICH ARE CHASING PALESTINIAN FAMILIES OUT OF THEIR HOMES.

PEACE BY PEACE, THEY PACK THEIR LIVES AWAY, NEVER TO RETURN.

THE SETTLERS COME AT NIGHT WHILE WE'RE SLEEPING.

THEY BEAT US AND TRY TO KILL US.

THEY TRY TO FORCE US OUT OF OUR HOMES.

I CAPTAIN SLEEP ANYMORE.

I'M TOO AFRAID.

FAMILIES IN THIS VILLAGE ONCE HOME TO 140 PALESTINIANS TELL US THEY HAVE BEEN LEFT WITH NO CHOICE BUT TO FLEE THEIR HOMES.

WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW IS A CATASTROPHIC.

I'M 60 YEARS OLD, I'VE LIVED HERE MY ENTIRE LIFE.

DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE SETTLEMENTS IN THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK ARE CONSIDERED ILLEGAL BY MANY IN THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY THEY CONTINUE TO GROW AND EXPAND WITH THE BACKING OF ISRAELI AUTHORITIES.

WE INHERITED THIS LAND FROM OUR FOREFATHERS, WE LIVED HERE FOR GENERATIONS.

NOW, IT'S ONLY GETTING WORSE.

THE WAR IN GAZA ONLY ENCOURAGED THE SETTLERS.

ACCORDING TO THE ISRAEL RIGHTS GROUP, AT LEAST 15 PALESTINIAN BOMBING COMMUNITIES HAVE BEEN FORCIBLY DISPLACED SINCE OCTOBER 7th.

>> THE REAL THING INFLUENCING THE LIFE OF PALESTINIANS HERE IS THE OUTPOST UP THERE.

>> THE HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS SAYS ENCROACHMENTS ON PALESTINIAN LANDS ARE RAPIDLY ADVANCING AND PERSONAL ATTACKS ON THE WEST BANK HAVE ALMOST INTENSIFIED.

>> THE NEXT STAGE IS NOT ONLY ATTACKING PALESTINIANS OUT IN THE FIELD, GOING INTO THE COMMUNITIES, INTO THE HOMES, BURNING HOUSES, SMASHING WATER TANKS, BEATING UP PEOPLE AND THREATENING WOMEN AND CHILDREN AND THE RESULT IS WHAT YOU SEE IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES, ENTIRE COMMUNITIES PACKING UP AND LEAVING.

SETTLERS TAKING ADVANTAGE ALL EYES ARE ON GAZA TO ACCELERATE THEIR VIOLENCE.

THERE IS NO PROTECTION FROM THE ISRAELI POLICE AND IN MANY CASES THE ISRAELI ARE ACCOMPANYING THE SETTLERS AND IN MANY CASES THE SETTLER ARE THE ARMY.

>> IN A REMOTE PALESTINIAN COMMUNITY ISRAEL'S COMMUNITY KEEPS A WATCHFUL EYE, THE SOLDIERS NEVER TOO FAR AWAY.

>> YOU NEED TO GO.

>> WHY?

>> BECAUSE YOU ARE -- >> SORRY?

WHY?

WHY ARE WE NOT ALLOWED -- >> THIS VILLAGE KNOWS THE PRICE OF SETTLER VIOLENCE ALL TOO WELL.

PALESTINIANS HERE SAY THEIR ATTACKS ARE EDGING CLOSER EACH NIGHT.

THEY COME AND THREATEN US SAYING WE HAVE TO LEAVE OR THEY WILL BE BACK TO TARGET US.

THEY'RE ALL ARMED.

THEY NEVER COME HERE WITHOUT WEAPONS.

>> IN THE LAST WEEK ALONE, RESIDENTS HERE SAY ISRAELI HAVE SLASHED THEIR WATERLINES AND CUT THROUGH LOCAL POWER LINES, AN EFFORT TO PRESSURE PALESTINIAN FAMILIES TO LEAVE THE AREA.

>> WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW IS UNDER THE CLOAK OF THE WAR THAT'S HAPPENING NOW, THE SETTLER ACTIVITY IS -- SETTLER VIOLENCE HAS INCREASED TREMENDOUSLY OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS.

>> THIS CRISIS IS NOT NEW TO THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE BUT IT'S A CRISIS THAT IS DEEPENING.

ISRAEL'S BOMBARDMENT OF THE GAZA STRIP SAID TO BE EMBOLDENING VIOLENT SETTLERS.

ACROSS THE SOUTHERN HEBRON HILLS, THERE ARE FEARS SMALLER MORE REMOTE PALESTINIAN VILLAGES COULD BE NEXT.

BUT FOR PALESTINIANS HERE, IT IS ALREADY TOO LATE.

>> REPORTING THERE FROM THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK.

>>> ISRAEL HAS VOWED TO ELIMINATE HAMAS.

BUT CAN THAT BE DONE MILITARILY?

MY NEXT GUEST, FORMER IDF SOLDIER, BENZI SANDERS WAS DEPLOYED TO GAZA IN THE 2014 WAR AND AT THE TIME WAS FULL OF CERTAINTY ABOUT HIS MISSION.

NOW, THE IDEA HAMAS CAN BE MILITARY ELIMINATED IS WRONG THEN AND NOW.

HE'S JOINING US FROM JERUSALEM.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

YOU'VE BEEN LISTENING TO SOME OF THE REPORTING JUST AIRING JUST BEFORE YOU AND YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY SEEING EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON AROUND YOU.

TELL ME FIRST WHAT HAS BEEN GOING THROUGH YOUR HEAD AND YOUR HEART SINCE OCTOBER 7th.

>> WELL, SINCE OCTOBER 7th, EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED IN SOME WAYS AND IN OTHER WAYS EVERYTHING IS -- MY WORST FEARS ARE COMING TRUE.

I, AS YOU MENTIONED, I FOUGHT IN GAZA IN 2014.

THAT WAR WAS ALSO PRECEDED BY A HORRIFIC TERRORIST ATTACK JUST LIKE WE SAW ON OCTOBER 7th.

THREE ISRAELI TEENAGERS WERE KIDNAPPED AND MURDERED WHICH LED TO THE FIRING OF ROCKETS, A MASSIVE CRACKDOWN ON HAMAS IN THE WEST BANK AND FIRING OF ROCKETS AND THEN A GROUND INVASION.

THE IMAGES THAT EVERYONE IS SEEING, THAT I'M SEEING, REMIND ME VERY VIVIDLY OF THAT FIGHTING.

FRANKLY, IT'S MY WORST FEARS BECAUSE MANY PEOPLE, COLLEAGUES IN THE ISRAELI PEACE CAMP AND ISRAELI ANTI-OCCUPATION CAMP HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR YEARS WE CAN'T JUST MANAGE THE CONFLICT AND MAINTAIN A VERY BRUTAL MILITARY REGIME OF CONTROL OVER PALESTINIANS THAT ACTUALLY PLAYS INTO THE HANDS OF HAMAS AND PLAYS INTO THE HANDS OF THESE MURDEROUS TERRORIST GROUPS.

SO ALL I'VE BEEN DOING SINCE THEN IS TRYING TO SHARE MY MESSAGE, TRY TO SHARE MY EXPERIENCE AND TRY TO AVOID MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES WE MADE IN 2014 WHEN HAMAS ONLY GOT STRONGER AFTER WE BOMBED THEM AND KILLED THOUSANDS AND WE STRUCK THEM A DECISIVE BLOW, OR THAT'S AT LEAST WHAT I THOUGHT AT THE TIME BUT I ONLY SAW AFTERWARDS MY OWN GOVERNMENT STRENGTHENED HAMAS.

>> IT'S PRETTY INTENSE TO HEAR YOU SAY THAT.

WE KNOW THE MAJORITY OF YOUR COUNTRY RIGHT NOW IS IN FAVOR OF THIS WAR.

THEY MIGHT NOT BE IN FAVOR OF THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT BUT THEY DEFINITELY BELIEVE SOMEHOW SOMEWHERE HAMAS HAS TO BE DEFEATED.

YOU'RE SAYING IT CAN'T BE DONE MILITARY.

TELL US, I GUESS THE FIRST QUESTION REALLY IS TO YOU, ARE YOU OUT OF STEP WITH THE MAJORITY OF YOUR COUNTRY PEOPLE RIGHT NOW?

ARE YOU ABLE STILL TO TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU SAW, WHAT YOU FEEL, WHAT YOU'VE LEARNED, HOW YOU'VE CHANGED?

>> YEAH.

WELL, I'LL ADD, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT A PACIFIST.

I BELIEVE ISRAEL HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY TO DEFEND ITSELF AGAINST HAMAS, OF COURSE, THAT INCLUDES MILITARY ACTIONS.

I THINK RIGHT NOW IN ISRAELI SOCIETY THERE'S A DEBATE GOING ON AS TO WHETHER THIS WAR WE'RE FIGHTING SHOULD BE AGAINST HAMAS OR SHOULD IT BE AGAINST THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.

YOU HAVE MEMBERS OF THIS CURRENT GOVERNMENT WHO HAVE SAID SINCE THE HORRIFIC ATROCITIES WE SAW ON OCTOBER 7th AGAINST ISRAELI CIVILIANS AND KIDNAPPING OF ISRAELI CIVILIANS WHO ARE STILL BEING HELD THEY MADE IT CLEAR THEY AREN'T DIFFERENTIATING BETWEEN CIVILIANS AND HAMAS EVEN LAST NIGHT, A SENIOR MEMBER OF THE COALITION, SORRY, ON SATURDAY NIGHT, A SENIOR MEMBER OF THE COALITION, MEMBER OF THE CABINET, THE FINANCE MINISTER AND THE MINISTER OVERSEEING THE WEST BANK AND MINISTRY OF DEFENSE SAID HE DOESN'T REALLY SEE A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY AND HAMAS, ARABS ARE THE SAME ARABS.

THERE ARE MANY ISRAELIS WHO DISAGREE WITH THAT AND WHO ARE QUESTIONING THE ASSUMPTIONS AND LIES THEY'VE BEEN TOLD FOR SO MANY YEARS.

MAYBE IT IS A MAJORITY WHO HAS BELIEVED THE LIES OUR GOVERNMENT HAS TOLD US, BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PARTNERS OF MINE IN THE ISRAELI PEACE CAMP.

I SAW MANY OF MY -- >> YES?

>> BENZI, YOUR LINE HAS DROPPED, WE WILL REDIAL YOU AND BRING YOU BACK, OKAY?

STAND BY AND WE'LL BRING YOU BACK.

>>> AS WE MENTIONED EARLIER, TENSION AND DIVISION MOUNT IN MOST CORNERS OF THE WORLD OVER THIS.

UNIVERSITY CAMPUSES IN THE U.S. HAVE BECOME ONE OF THE FOCAL POINTS FROM IVY LEAGUES TO COLLEGES.

FIVE SEPARATE INCIDENCES AT STANFORD UNIVERSITY ARE UNDER INVESTIGATION AS POTENTIAL HATE CRIMES.

UP NEXT, DARTMOUTH CHAIR OF STUDIES, SUSANNAH HESCHEL AND TAREK EL-ARISS WANTED TO DEVELOP A FORUM FOR STUDENTS TO DISCUSS.

TALKING TO BOTH PROFESSORS ABOUT THAT RESPONSE AND WHAT IT ACHIEVED.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE.

PROFESSOR EL-ARISS AND PROFESSOR HESCHEL, THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US TODAY.

AS WE ARE SPEAKING WE ARE ABOUT A MONTH AFTER THESE TERRIBLE EVENTS THAT HAVE CONSUMED SO MUCH OF OUR ATTENTION AND TERRIBLE ATTACK BY HAMAS IN SOUTHERN ISRAEL.

IF I COULD ASK YOU BRIEFLY TO TAKE ME BACK TO THAT MOMENT, PROFESSOR EL-ARISS, WHAT DO YOU INCOME HAPPENED AND WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND?

>> I WAS FOLLOWING AS THE EVENTS UNFOLD ON THE ARABIC CHANNELS AND I -- YOU KNOW, I'M ORIGINALLY FROM LEBANON BUT I ALSO LIVED IN NEW YORK ON 9/11.

IT WAS ONE OF THOSE MOMENTS I FELT THIS IS REALLY HORRIBLE HORRIBLE EVENT.

I IMMEDIATELY GOT ON THE PHONE WITH, YOU KNOW, PROFESSOR HESCHEL, AND WE SAID, THIS IS REALLY -- THIS IS NOT JUST ANY OTHER ATTACK OR, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER EPISODE THAT WE SEE A LOT OF, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO OPEN A PORTAL INTO A FORM OF VIOLENCE THAT WE ARE NOT -- WE HAVEN'T SEEN LIKE THIS.

IMMEDIATELY WE TALKED AND SAID, OKAY, WE NEED TO CREATE A FORUM FOR THIS.

WE NEED TO CREATE A SPACE WHERE PEOPLE CAN COME AND TALK ABOUT THIS AND ENGAGE WITH THIS AND THINK ABOUT THIS.

THIS IS GOING TO CAPTURE PEOPLE'S MINDS.

THIS IS GOING TO REALLY MAKE PEOPLE WANT TO -- IT WILL CONSUME PEOPLE NOT ONLY IN THE MIDDLE EAST BUT ALSO OBVIOUSLY IN THE U.S. AS WELL.

WHENEVER THEY ARE IDENTIFYING WITH THAT PART OF THE WORLD IN SOME WAY.

>> IT SOUNDS AS THOUGH FOR BOTH OF YOU, YOUR IMMEDIATE INSTINCT IS WE HAVE TO CREATE A FORUM TO TALK ABOUT THIS.

TALK TO ME ABOUT THAT.

LOOK, IT HAS TO BE SAID, THAT WAS NOT EVERY SCHOLAR'S FIRST INSTINCT.

SOME SCHOLARS WERE ORGANIZING RALLIES.

YOU KNOW, SAY MORE IF YOU WOULD ABOUT THE CONVERSATION YOU AND PROFESSOR EL-ARISS HAD.

>> I WAS EXTREMELY UPSET, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE.

BUT I HAVE A PROFESSIONAL OBLIGATION AS A SCHOLAR TO MY UNIVERSITY AND TO MY WORK.

SO WE SPOKE ON THE PHONE.

WE DECIDED WE WOULD HAVE TWO ACADEMIC FORUMS AT THE DARTMOUTH COLLEGE CAMPUS AND SET THOSE UP.

I WAS ONE OF THEM AND THE OTHERS WERE THREE OTHER SCHOLARS WHO ARE TEACHING IN MIDDLE EASTERN STUDIES.

I HAVE TO SAY THE JEWISH STUDIES AND MIDDLE EASTERN STUDIES HAVE HAD A LONG AND VERY FRUITFUL COLLABORATION ON CAMPUS.

I AM CO-TEACHING A COURSE ON MIDDLE EASTERN STUDIES THIS TERM ON THE 1967 ARAB-ISRAELI WAR.

AND CO-TAUGHT BY BERNARD AND BRASHEAR FROM GOVERNMENT.

WE OFFERED THIS AS A PANEL TO DEMONSTRATE TO THE COLLEGE STUDENTS AND FACULTY HOW WE COME TOGETHER IN THIS MOMENT, WE MODEL FOR THEM WHAT IT IS TO BE A SCHOLAR AND ACADEMIC AND ACADEMIC INSTITUTION TO DISCUSS THE ISSUES THOUGHTFULLY, NOT TO LOOK FOR CONDEMNATIONS OR TO SPEAK ABOUT EMOTIONS BUT TO THINK IN CONTEXT WHAT CAN WE AS SCHOLARS CONTRIBUTE TO THE ANALYSIS OF THIS MOMENT AND ALSO DEMONSTRATE HOW WE SHOULD THINK IN THIS MOMENT.

HOW SHOULD WE BE RESPONDING AS ACADEMICS?

THAT, WE FELT, ALSO, WHAT WE SUCCEEDED DOING AT DARTMOUTH WAS TO KEEP ALL SIDES TOGETHER AS A COMMUNITY OF ACADEMICS, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT WE DO IN OUR CLASSROOM.

>> ONE OF THE REASONS WE CALLED YOU IS WE SAW AN ARTICLE IN THE FORWARD SAYING MANY UNIVERSITIES FULLABILITY REACTIONS TO THE HAMAS ATTACK AND HERE IS HOW DARTMOUTH GOT IT RIGHT.

DID THE ADMINISTRATION PLAY ANY ROLE?

WE HAVE SEEN AT OTHER UNIVERSITIES, UNIVERSITY PRESIDENTS HAVE BEEN HEAVILY CRITICIZED FOR NOT SAYING ENOUGH OR NOT SOON ENOUGH.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE HAVE A NEW PRESIDENT AT DARTMOUTH, PRESIDENT SE IAN BEILOCK, WHO SAID WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING AND ASKED PRESIDENT SMITH TO CALL AND SHE DID.

WE ALREADY MADE PLANS.

THE LEADERSHIP AT DARTMOUTH HAS BEEN VERY STRONG AND VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT OF WHAT WE ARE DOING AS FACULTY.

THAT HAS MADE A HUGE DIFFERENCE AS WELL.

>> TELL ME ABOUT THAT FIRST FORUM.

WHAT WAS IT LIKE?

>> WE RECOGNIZE STUDENTS, FACULTY, STAFF, THE COMMUNITY, WERE ALL VERY UPSET, FRIGHTENED, WORRIED AND ANGRY.

DARTMOUTH DOES OFFER 24 HOURS A DAY MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELING FOR STUDENTS, FOR EXAMPLE.

WE EMPHASIZE THAT.

WE ALSO HAVE CHAPLAINS TO SPEAK TO STUDENTS AND TO FACULTY.

THAT'S ALSO IMPORTANT.

OUR JOB AT THESE FORUMS WAS TO COME TOGETHER AS ACADEMICS TO DEMONSTRATE WHAT WE DO IN THESE CLASSROOMS, WHEN THE PROFESSOR EL-ARISS AND I TEACH A COURSE WE HAVE STUDENTS JEWISH, CHRISTIAN, MUSLIMS, FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, PALESTINIAN STUDENTS, WE COME TOGETHER IN THE CLASSROOM TO UNDERSTAND AND WORK TOGETHER AND THINK THROUGH THE PROBLEMS.

THE CLASS ROOMS BECOME A PLACE STUDENTS WORK TOGETHER AND FORM FRIENDSHIPS AND THINK TOGETHER.

WE DON'T POLARIZE.

THAT'S WHAT WE WANTED TO ACHIEVE WITH THESE FORUMS AND THAT ACTUALLY DID HAPPEN.

OF COURSE THERE WERE STUDENTS VERY UPSET EMOTIONALLY.

I WAS, TOO, BUT STILL AM VERY UPSET.

THAT'S NOT WHAT AS A PROFESSIONAL I BRING TO MY CLASSROOM.

A CLASSROOM IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF SPACE.

IT'S NOT A SPACE TO RANT AND RAVE AND DO DEMAGOGUERY, A CLASSROOM IS A PLACE FOR SCHOLARSHIP.

>> WHEN YOU DID GET BACK TO CAMPUS AND STARTED ANTICIPATING THESE CONVERSATIONS, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU HEARD, PROFESSOR EL-ARISS?

>> THE STUDENTS STARTED COMING TO MY OFFICE.

I OPENED MY OFFICE TO THEM TO HEAR WHAT THEY'RE HEARING AND THINKING AND TO SUPPORT THEM, AND TO BE THERE WITH THEM.

AS PROFESSOR HESCHEL MENTIONED WE HAVE STUDENTS FROM THE DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS AND DIFFERENT POLITICAL VIEWS AND POSITIONS IN OUR CLASSES.

THEY COME TO OUR CLASSES BECAUSE THEY FEEL LIKE WE ARE ABLE TO MAINTAIN A CONVERSATION WHERE THEIR VIEWS ARE RESPECTED AND ALSO WE'RE NOT IMPOSING ANY OF OUR VIEWS ON THEM.

WE TRY TO ENCOURAGE THEM TO FORM THEIR OWN PERSPECTIVE WHEN THEY LOOK HOW JEWS AND ARABS WORKED TOGETHER THROUGHOUT THE 19TH CENTURY AND EAST AND OTHER PART OF THE WORLD, HOW THEY DEFENDED EACH OTHER'S CAUSES, A AM KO MON STRUGGLE AS WELL.

SOMETIMES COLONIALISM.

AND WE TRY TO REPRESENT A KIND OF HISTORY OF LIVING TOGETHER.

STUDENTS COME TO THIS, JEWISH STUDENTS, PALESTINIAN STUDENTS, THEY KNOW EACH OTHER AND COME WITH US ON STUDY ABROAD.

THERE IS A CONNECTION BETWEEN THEM.

SO WHEN THESE THINGS 19 THEY ARE STILL TALKING.

I WOULD ASK THE STUDENTS, HOW IS SO-AND-SO.

I'M ASKING A JEWISH STUDENT HOW A PALESTINIAN STUDENT IS DOING AND VICE-VERSA.

I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT WE ENGAGE IN CONNECTION AND EXPLAIN THE COMPLEXION OF HISTORIES AND COMPLEX BUT AT THE SAME TIME MAINTAIN A COMMUNITY OF CARE.

WE ARE HERE TO SUPPORT THEM AND LISTEN TO THEM.

WE WANT THEM TO SUPPORT EACH OTHER AS WELL.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS YOU HEAR FROM STUDENTS MUSLIM OR PALESTINIAN OR ARAB OR ALL THREE THEY FEEL THEY HAVE BEEN SILENCED.

THEY FEEL THEY CAN'T EXPRESS THEIR LEGITIMATE FEAR, ANGER, CONCERN, I MEAN ON THE ONE HAND YOU HAVE JEWISH STUDENTS DEEPLY AFRAID AND LEGITIMATELY SO AND YOU ALSO HAVE ARAB AND PALESTINIAN AND MUSLIM STUDENTS DEEPLY AFRAID FOR DIFFERENT REASONS.

I CAN IMAGINE THEY MIGHT WANT YOU TO BE A SPOKESMAN FOR THEM.

AND I WANT YOUR TAKE FOR THEM.

>> I CREATE FORUMS FOR THEM AND ALSO GO TO THE STUDENTS IN THEIR OWN COMFORTABLE SAFE SPACES SO PEOPLE CAN COME AND TALK TO THEM AND ASK THEM AND SEE NOT HONESTLY HOW THEY THINK, BUT ALSO HOW THEY FEEL.

WE'RE VERY MUCH DOING THIS.

I THINK ALSO THERE IS A FRUSTRATION, IT'S UNDERSTANDABLE THERE IS FRUSTRATION THE POLITICAL RESOLUTION OF THIS CONFLICT HAS NOT HAPPENED.

THE EMPHASIS HAS BEEN ON SECURITY MEASURES AND RATHER THAN REAL POLITICAL SOLUTION.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US AS ACADEMICS, WE UNDERSTAND THE FRUSTRATION THE POLITICAL SOLUTION THROUGH TALKS HORKLY HAS CRUMBLED.

WHAT ELSE DO WE HAVE, I MEAN, FOR US, OTHER THAN CONVERSATION OTHER NAN ENGAGEMENT, ENGAGING THE OTHER AND TRYING TO SHOW THE OTHER SIDE YOUR PERSPECTIVE, AND DO IT IN A WAY THAT BRINGS THEM IN RATHER THAN ALIENATE THEM AT THE OUTSIDE.

>> HAS ANYBODY CRITICIZED YOU FOR NOT BEING ANGRY ENOUGH, PROFESSOR EL-ARISS, ANYBODY CRITICIZED YOU FOR NOT BEING OUTRAGED ENOUGH?

>> I DID 15 YEARS IN A CIVIL WAR SITUATION UNDER ALL KINDS OF BOMBS.

IT TOOK ME A LONG TIME TO DO THAT AND DEAL WITH THE ANGER, BUT ALSO TO TRANSFORM THE ANGER INTO SOMETHING MORE CONSTRUCTIVE.

BUT I ALSO SEE THE FRUSTRATION IN THE STUDENTS WHO FEEL THEY WANT TO DO SOMETHING AND THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING.

IT IS A CULTURE OUT THERE EXPECTING STUDENTS AT THE UNIVERSITY, A FRESHMAN AND SO ON, TO SOMEHOW HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE HUMAN RIGHTS SITUATION OR INTERVENE IN A POLITICAL SITUATION.

THAT'S NOT FAIR.

THAT'S A HUGE BURDEN ON THAT STUDENT AND THAT'S CRUSHING IN SOME WAY.

PART OF WHAT WE HAVE TO DO, I WANT TO ON THE ONE HAND ALLEVIATE THAT BURDEN TO ACT.

AND SAY, I UNDERSTAND THE FRUSTRATION.

ALSO, I NEED TO CALM THEM DOWN AND MAKE THEM LISTEN AND TRY TO EXPLAIN TO THEM A BIGGER LARGER PICTURE.

PROSECUTING THEM ALSO TO TALK ABOUT PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT BURDEN FROM THE OTHER SIDE OR OTHER PERSPECTIVE.

IF WE CUT THOSE TIES AND CREATE THOSE WALLS THAT SEPARATES AND SAY, OKAY, I WON'T TALK TO THE OTHER CAMP BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE AND IT IS ABSOLUTE, THEN WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

WOULD WE STILL HAVE EDUCATION THE WAY WE UNDERSTAND IT?

THIS IS HOW I'M TRAINED AS A HUMANIST, SOMEONE INVESTED TALKING TO THE OTHER PERSON.

I WON'T SAY, I WON'T TALK, THIS IS MY VIEW AND I WILL DO ANYTHING TO ACHIEVE IT.

THIS IS NOT MY MISSION AS AN EDUCATOR.

>> PROFESSOR HESCHEL, I WANT TO ASK YOU THE SAME THING, HAS ANYONE SAID THIS TO YOU, THAT YOU SHOULD BE ON THIS SIDE OR YOU'RE NOT OUTRAGED ENOUGH?

ANYONE SAID THAT TO YOU?

>> I'M SURE PEOPLE THINK IT.

I KNOW I HAVE COLLEAGUES AT OTHER INSTITUTIONS WHO SAID A JEWISH STUDIES PROFESSOR SHOULD REPRESENT THE JEWISH STUDIES AND THE JEWISH FEDERATION ON CAMPUS.

THAT'S NOT THE ROLE OF AN ACADEMIC.

I WANT MY CLASSROOM TO WHERE STUDENTS ASK ME.

PEOPLE ASK ME, HOW MANY OF YOUR STUDENTS ARE JEWISH?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T KNOW WHO IS JEWISH?

WHY SHOULD I KNOW THAT.

STUDENTS IN ALL PARTS OF THE WORLD, CHINA, PAKISTAN, VIETNAM.

THEY'RE INTERESTED AND I WANT THEM TO COME AND FEEL PERFECTLY COMFORTABLE AND EQUALLY EVERY OTHER STUDENT IN THE CLASSROOM.

>> SEVERAL THINGS CAME TO PLAY HERE.

YOU HAD LONG STANDING PRIOR RELATIONSHIPS OF MUTUAL RESPECT.

YOU HAD A HISTORY OF NOT JUST WORKING TOGETHER BUT BEING VERY CLEAR ABOUT YOUR ROLE IN A TIME OF CRISIS AND YOU HAVE DEEP FRIENDSHIPS AMONG YOURSELF.

I'M WONDERING WHY IS THIS SO HARD?

IT SEEMS A NUMBER AT PROMINENT UNIVERSITIES THINGS HAVE SPUN OUT OF CONTROL.

YOU HAVE KIDS SENDING HATE MESSAGES AND TEARING DOWN OTHER PEOPLE'S POSTERS AND AMPLIFYING PEOPLE TAKING HOSTAGE.

WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS SO HARD?

DO YOU HAVE A THEORY ABOUT THAT?

>> THIS IS SOMETHING WE ARE GOING TO BE THINKING ABOUT FOR A LONG TIME TO COME.

WHAT BROUGHT US TO THIS POINT.

MANY FACTOR, INSTITUTIONAL LEADERSHIP IS ONE AND YOU CAN'T JUST PLUNGE RIGHT IN.

WHY IS IT SO MANY UNIVERSITIES ARE AT WAR WITH EACH OTHER AND DON'T TALK TO EACH OTHER.

WE HAVE CROSS LISTED COACHES AND WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS A LONG TIME.

SOMETIMES IT MAY BE UNCOMFORTABLE AND WE MAY HEAR THINGS FROM GUEST SPEAKERS WE LIKE PUT WE DON'T BRING IN SPEAKERS WITH A MOUTHPIECE, WE WANT THEM TO CHALLENGE US.

I WILL GIVE A STUDENTS TO READ AND SAY, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IN RESPONSE TO THIS?

HOW WOULD YOU FORM IT?

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS ARTICLE, AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, SAY SOMETHING BUT IN AN ECONOMIC INTELLIGENT WAY WITH WARRANTS FOR THE PROOF.

THERE ARE OTHER ELEMENTS AS WELL.

A STUDENT SAID IS ISRAEL AN APARTHEID STATE.

FIRST, IT DOESN'T REALLY FIT THE DEFINITION.

WE'RE NOT HERE TO JUDGE, WE'RE HERE TO UNDERSTAND.

I'M NOT A JUDGE IN A COURTROOM, A JURY.

I'M AN ACADEMIC AND WANT TO ANALYZE AND THINK.

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF DEFINING SOMETHING AS APARTHEID, OR INCIDENT, WHICH MAY BE TERRIBLE.

THE BOMBING IN FWZ IS A TERRIBLE THING.

WHY DO I HAVE TO CALL IT GENOCIDE?

WHEN HAMAS ATTACKED ISRAELI CIVILIANS, 1400 PEOPLE MURDERED, INNOCENT CIVILIANS.

I WANT TO ANALYZE AND THINK IT THROUGH, HOW DID WE GET TO THIS POINT?

I DON'T WANT TO SIMPLY FIT IT INTO A PRIOR NARRATIVE, WHETHER COLONIAL NARRATIVE OR SOMETHING ELSE.

THAT'S WHERE I THINK WE'RE STUCK MANY OF US IN OUR ACADEMIC WORK WITH PREDETERMINED NARRATIVES WHAT THE PHILOSOPHER CALLED WAS COVERING LAWS.

WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THAT IN MORE EXPANSIVE TERMS AND ANALYZE IT CREATIVELY AND WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH, NOT TO LABEL OR JUDGE.

AS ACADEMICS WE HAVE A COMMITMENT TO HUMANITY, TO HUMAN LIVES.

>> PROFESSOR, I WANT TO ASK YOU THIS.

SOME OF THESE ARE KIDS.

SOME OF THE REASON THEY GO TO COLLEGE IS TO FIGURE OUT WHO THEY ARE.

OVERDOING IT, DOING TOO MUCH, SAYING TOO MUCH, SAYING THE WRONG THING, THAT'S PART OF GROWING UP, ON THE OTHER HAND.

RIGHT?

>> THE STUDENTS WHO SAID, AFTER I SAID, I SAID IT IN SUCH A RESPECTFUL WAY, SAID, WHAT DO YOU THINK IF I WOULD SAY ISRAEL IS -- THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTION.

THIS IS WHAT I RETAINED FROM THAT ALSO.

IT IS ALSO THE WAY, IT IS NOT WHAT YOU SAY, THE WAY YOU SAY IT.

IT IS ALSO TO HAVE AN ENVIRONMENT THAT ALLOWS YOU TO SAY WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY WITHOUT COMPLETELY CANCELING THE OTHER.

DISAGREEMENT DOESN'T MEAN AND ERASURE.

THAT'S WHAT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO HOLD ONTO.

I CAN DISAGREE WITH YOU AND HAVE MY STRONG FEELINGS AND SAY THEM BUT I HAVE TO FIND A WAY I'M NOT COMPLETELY NOT LETTING THE OTHER PERSON SPEAK AND ALSO EXPRESS THEIR VIEW AND OPENING AND FEELING AS WELL.

OUR ROLE IS REALLY TO CREATE THAT SPACE WHERE ONE FEELING OR ONE VOICE DOESN'T CANCEL THE OTHER.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US TODAY, PROFESSORS.

I BELIEVE YOUR WORDS WILL BE A BOND TO MANY PEOPLE.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> INDEED THEY WILL, TALKING ACROSS THAT POTENTIAL DIVIDE IS SO IMPORTANT.

LET'S NOW THEN BRING BACK IN BENZI-SANDERS, THE FORMER IDF SOLDIER AND NOW PEACE ACTIVIST.

YOU'VE BEEN STANDING BY AND WE HAD TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES AND YOU ARE BACK.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE TAERL IN THE "NEW YORK TIMES," DESCRIBING WHAT IT WAS LIKE IN 2014 IN GAZA.

YOU WROTE SOME OF YOUR SOLDIERS WERE FEELING DOUBTS AND YOU WROTE THIS.

I WROTE SOME MEMBERS OF MY TEAM HAD BEEN TALLYING THE NUMBER OF SOLDIERS KILLED AND DISCUSS WHETHER THIS COULD BE WORTH THE LOSSES.

I THINK IT COULD BE WORTH IT ESPECIALLY IF THEY DECISIVELY ELIMINATE THE THREAT.

THAT'S THE LIE WE ARE BEING TOLD TODAY WE CAN ELIMINATE THE THREAT OF HAMAS THROUGH A MILITARY OPERATION.

>>> HOW DID YOU COME TO TELL THAT YOU COULDN'T?

>> ONE OF THE THINGS OVER THE YEARS IS NOT JUST THE VOICES OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS, THE TOP COUNTERTERRORISM EXPERT FOR 4 1/2 YEARS IN THE COUNTRY.

HE SAID THIS OPENLY.

HE SAID THE ONLY WAY TO DECISIVELY DEFEAT THE TERRORISM THAT HAMAS REPRESENTS IS THROUGH CREATING AN ALTERNATIVE AND CREATING HOPE.

THAT MEANS WORKING TOWARDS A POLITICAL SOLUTION.

OUR CURRENT GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN FUNDAMENTALLY COMMITTED TO OPPOSING A POLITICAL SOLUTION AND PREVENTING THE CREATION OF A PALESTINIAN STATE AND PROMOTING PALESTINIAN INDEPENDENCE.

THOROUGHFARE, THAT'S WHY I REALIZE APPLING -- A MILITARY ALONE WILL NOT DEFEAT HAMAS AND WHY OUR GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED IMMEDIATELY.

>> YOU TALK A LOT IN YOUR OP SED WHAT YOU SAW IN GAZA IN 2014.

TELL ME BECAUSE EARLIER YOU SAID YOU DON'T BELIEVE THE SOLDIERS DISTINGUISHED CAREFULLY ENOUGH BETWEEN CIVILIANS AND HAMAS FIGHTERS.

WHAT DID YOU YOURSELF EXPERIENCE TO MAKE YOU SAY THAT.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IN THE AREA THAT WE WENT, WE WERE TOLD THAT ALL THE CIVILIANS HAD FLED.

THAT WAS TRUE FOR THE MOST PART BUT IT WASN'T ENTIRELY TRUE.

WE DID FIND CIVILIANS.

IT WAS AN ENTIRE FAMILY THAT STAYED BEHIND, THE SOLDIERS, LUCKILY WHEN THEY ENTERED THE HOUSE, THEY DIDN'T KILL THEM WITH FOOD AND WATER BIT GUARDED THEM FOR MANY DAYS.

THE AIR FORCE FLEW OVERHEAD AND BOMBED THE ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD AND EIGHT MEMBERS OF THE SAME FAMILY WERE KILLED.

I'M LISTENING TO MY OWN LEADERS INCLUDING WHO I MENTIONED, WHO YOU SAID DIDN'T REALLY DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY AND WANTS TO NEGOTIATE WITH ISRAEL AND HAMAS THAT CARRIED OUT THESE ATROCITIES.

>> THE ARABS ARE -- I DON'T BELIEVE THEY ARE DOING EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER TO PREVENT CIVILIAN CASUALTIES, BASED ON THE MEMBERS OF THE COALITION AND THAT'S A AS A RESULT OF THE FACT THIS GOVERNMENT VIEW THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE AS FUTURE PARTNERS FOR MAKING PEACE WITH.

THEY ARE CONVINCED OVERWHELMING MILITARY POWER WILL BRING US SAFETY AND SECURITY, A CATASTROPHIC MISTAKE, THE SAME MISTAKE THAT LED US TO THE HORRIFIC EVENTS OF OCTOBER 7th.

WE ABSOLUTELY NEED TO CHANGE THAT.

WE NEED OUR PARTNERS ABROAD AND THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.

I'M AN ISRAELI AND ALSO AMERICAN.

I EXPECT THE AMERICANS NOT JUST PAID LIP SERVICE PROVIDER TO PREVENTING THE POLITICAL SOLUTION.

THEY'RE EXPANDING, ILLEGALLY TAKING OVER LAND NOT ONLY TO INTERNATIONAL LAW, ISRAELI LAW AND GOING OUT AND SHOOTING WITH CIVILIANS.

WITH IMPUNITY, THERE'S NO REAL ENFORCEMENT AGAINST THEM.

OUR INTERNATIONAL PARTNERS AND ALLIES NEED TO TAKE A STANCE ON THE SIDE OF THE SKRIERLS WHO ARE DEMANDING POLITICAL SOLUTION -- THE ISRAELIS -- AND THE DIFFERENTIATION AND MAKE SURE OUR GOVERNMENT DON'T HARM OR KILL INNOCENT CIVILIANS.

>> THEY ARE TELLING US ENDLESSLY WE ARE DOING OUR BEST BUT YOU CAN SEE OUR ALLIES ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE CIVILIAN TOLL.

THERE ARE STORIES A LOT ABOUT DISSENT BEING QUASHED IN ISRAEL.

ARE YOU NOT WORRIED ABOUT SIDING WITH THE ENEMIES AND GETTING SOME ISRAELIS IN TROUBLE.

>> IT'S A RISK I HAVE TO TAKE FOR THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL.

SIDING WITH THE ENEMY WOULD BE IRONIC FOR MY GOVERNMENT TO ACCUSE ME AFTER MY GOVERNMENT, IN ORDER TO PREVENT THE PALESTINIAN STATE ACTUALLY FACILITATED THE TRANSFER OF HUNDREDS OF MILLION DOLLARS TO HAMAS AND PREFERRED TO BOLSTER HAMAS AND DELEGITIMIZE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY AND PALESTINIAN HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS AS A TORSION ORGANIZATION.

THEY CHARACTERIZED PALESTINIAN DIPLOMATIC ISSUES, AS DIPLOMATIC TERRORISM.

THE AM MASTHAY FACILITIED A TRANSFER OF HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND CRUSHED THE PALESTINIAN INDEPENDENCE BECAUSE THEY FED THE FUEL OF HAMAS.

HAMAS IS THE ENEMY OF PEACE.

WHEN OUR GOVERNMENT COMMITTED ITSELF OF PREVENTING A PEACE PROCESS AND NEGOTIATIONS THEY WERE ACTUALLY HELPING HAMAS.

>> BENZI SANDERS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WHAT YOU JUST SAID HAS BEEN CONFIRMED BY VERY MANY PEOPLE.

WE KNOW GOVERNMENTS WERE ENCOURAGED TO TRY TO MAKE GAZA AND HAMAS SORT OF ECONOMICALLY OKAY THINKING THE THREAT HAD SUBSIDED.

CLEARLY, WE KNOW IT HAD NOT.

BENZI-SANDERS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED.

>>> FINALLY TONIGHT WE TAKE A MOMENT TO REMEMBER THE 36 JOURNALISTS WHO HAVE LOST THEIR LIVES SINCE OCTOBER 7th.

ACCORDING TO THE COMMITTEE TO PROTECT JOURNALISTS, THESE PAST FOUR WEEKS HAVE BEEN THE DEADLIEST SINCE THEY BEGAN DOCUMENTING IN 1992.

A GLIMMER OF HOPE, IBRAHIM AND HIS FAMILY ARE FINALLY SAFE NOW.

HE AND HIS TWO SONS AND HIS WIFE EXPECTING ANOTHER BABY, FROM THE ROUGHING BY GAZA INTO EGYPT.

FOR 27 DAYS THEY LIVED WITH LIMITED FOOD AND WATER.

WE WANT TO THANK HIM FOR HIS DANGEROUS REPORTING AND HERE'S THE MOMENT THEY KNEW THEY WOULD BE SAFE.

>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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