>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY, HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP.

>> REALLY FANTASTIC FOR THE USA.

>> CRISIS AVERTED OVER GREENLAND.

PRESIDENT TRUMP DROPPED HIS TARIFF THREATS AFTER AN AGREEMENT WITH NATO.

I ASKED THE FORMER DANISH PRIME MINISTER IF THEY ARE OUT OF THE WOODS YET.

THEN -- >> THERE IS A SHOOTING AT THE TOP OF THE BUILDING.

[ INAUDIBLE ] THE SHOOTERS WERE SHOOTING PEOPLE IN THE FACE.

THEY MUST HAVE KILLED PEOPLE.

>> TWO WEEKS INTO AN INTERNET BLACKOUT, WE HAVE A SPECIAL REPORT, HEARING FROM PROTESTERS WHO WITNESSED THE REGIME'S VIOLENT CRACKDOWN.

AND WE GET INSIGHT FROM AN IRANIAN AMERICAN HELD FOR ALMOST EIGHT YEARS INSIDE THE NOTORIOUS PRISON.

>>> WE HAVE FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY, WE HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

THEY SHOULD BE IN THIS COUNTRY.

>> THE VP VISITS ICE AS CLASHES CONTINUE ACROSS AMERICAN CITIES.

WE TALKED TO MICHELLE MARTIN ABOUT THE POWER OF PEACEFUL PROTEST AND STANDING UP FOR THE MOST VULNERABLE.

>> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENTS, JIM ATTWOOD & LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDICE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A.

& SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI- SEMITISM, THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON & JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, WARSHAW, KOO & PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU, THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I AM CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

DRAMA IN TAPAS, COULD PIZZA BE ON THE HORIZON FOR UKRAINE?

U.S., UKRAINIAN, AND RUSSIAN OFFICIALS WILL MEET IN THE UAE TOMORROW AND SATURDAY FOR TALKS.

WHILE THE THREAT OF WAR AMONG ALLIES OVER GREENLAND APPEARS TO HAVE ABATED, HERE IS THEIR PRIME MINISTER, WELCOMING A DEAL BETWEEN ALLIES, BUT REFUSING TO SELL OUT POINT >> I KNOW THAT WE HAVE NOW A HIGH-LEVEL WORKING GROUP WORKING ON A SOLUTION OF BOTH PARTIES.

WE HAVE SAID FROM THE BEGINNING IN GREENLAND, WE HAVE SOME RED LINES.

WE CANNOT CROSS THE RED LINES.

WE HAVE SOME RESPECT ON TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY, WE HAVE TO RESPECT INTERNATIONAL LAW.

SOVEREIGNTY, WE ARE READY TO COOPERATE MORE IN ECONOMICS AND OTHER AREAS, BUT THAT IS SOMETHING WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT A MUTUAL RESPECT.

>> THE THIS AFTER PRESIDENT TRUMP ANNOUNCED HE HAD AGREED ON A SECURITY PLAN WITH THE HEAD OF NATO AND WALKED BACK HIS MILITARY AND TERRORIST THREATS ON ANY COUNTRY OPPOSING HIM, BUT THE DETAILS ARE STILL UNCLEAR.

>> IT IS REALLY BEING NEGOTIATED NOW.

THE DETAILS OF IT BUT ESSENTIALLY, IT'S TOTAL ACCESS.

THERE IS NO END, >> THE PRESIDENT ALSO UNVEILED HIS SO-CALLED BOARD OF PEACE, ORIGINALLY INTENDED TO OVERSEE GAZA RECONSTRUCTION, WHICH HE CALLED A BEAUTIFUL PIECE OF PROPERTY.

CRITICS WORRY, THOUGH, THAT THE BODY WOULD EVOLVE INTO A RIVAL TO THE UNITED NATIONS.

FEWER THAN 20 NATIONS ACTUALLY ATTENDED THE SIGNINGS THEIR MONEY TODAY AND DARBUS.

TODAY, EU LEADERS GATHER IN BRUSSELS FOR AN EMERGENCY SUMMIT.

JOINING ME NOW TO TALK ABOUT ALL OF THIS IS THE FORMER PRIME MINISTER, HELLE THORNING- SCHMIDT.

>> IT'S GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, YOU MUST'VE BEEN REALLY INVOLVED SORT OF EMOTIONALLY AND POLITICALLY, EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY IN OFFICE, BECAUSE YOU SAT IN THAT POSITION FOR MANY, MANY YEARS AS PRIME MINISTER.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT ALTHOUGH WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE GREENLAND PRIME MINISTER, FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP, AND THE CURRENT DANISH PRIME MINISTER, MEANS THAT IT IS SETTLED, ARE YOU OUT OF THE WOODS?

>> YEAH, FIRST OF ALL, YES, I HAVE BEEN DEEPLY ENGAGED AND ALWAYS DEEPLY ENGAGED IN THESE MATTERS FOR THE KINGDOM.

OBVIOUSLY, IF YOU ARE PRIME MINISTER IN DENMARK, YOU HAVE BEEN TO GREENLAND, I HAVE BEEN TO THE AMERICAN BASE IN GREENLAND, SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS VERY CLOSE TO OUR HEARTS, I WOULD SAY.

IN TERMS OF THE CURRENT CRISIS, YES, I WILL SAY THAT WE ARE IN A BETTER PLACE TONIGHT AS WE SPEAK THAN WE WERE YESTERDAY MORNING.

AND THERE IS A FEW REASONS FOR THAT.

FIRST OF ALL, IT WAS VERY CLEAR WHEN THE PRESIDENT SPOKE YESTERDAY THAT HE SAID HE WOULD NOT COERCE OR INVADE GREENLAND, WHICH WAS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT FOR GREENLAND.

AND FOR THE KINGDOM OF DENMARK.

IT WAS ALSO VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU SAID THAT IT WAS ABOUT DEFENSE, IT WASN'T ABOUT THE RARE EARTH MINERALS, IT WAS ABOUT DEFENSE, BECAUSE THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS EASIER TO TOPPLE, I THINK, MOVING FORWARD.

AND ANOTHER THING I HAVE BEEN ENCOURAGED BY OVER THE LAST FEW DAYS BASICALLY IS THIS IS NO LONGER ONLY A QUESTION FOR THE KINGDOM OF DENMARK AND GREENLAND IN A BILATERAL RELATION WITH THE U.S., THIS HAS BECOME A EUROPEAN ISSUE, AND WHAT I SAW THIS WEEK WAS THE NATO COUNTRIES ASSERTING THEMSELVES AND STICKING UP FOR EACH OTHER, AND THAT IS WHY I MUST DO QUITE POSITIVE TOWARDS THIS AGREEMENT PLACE BETWEEN NATO AND THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT YESTERDAY.

>> CAN I JUST ASK YOU, CAN IT BE DEALT WITH?

I MEAN, YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT THE KINGDOM OF GREENLAND, SORRY, THE KINGDOM OF DENMARK, THE RIGHT OF THE GREEN LENDERS.

THIS AGREEMENT WAS BETWEEN PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HEAD OF NATO.

DO THEY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO COME TO AN AGREEMENT OVER SOMETHING THAT DIRECTLY INVOLVES YOUR SOVEREIGN STATE?

>> NO, THEY DON'T, AND OF COURSE, [ INAUDIBLE ] I KNOW HIM VERY WELL FROM THE TIME I WAS PRIME MINISTER.

OF COURSE, HE HASN'T ENTERED ANY NEGOTIATIONS AROUND SOVEREIGNTY OR THE TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY FOR GREENLAND OR THE KINGDOM OF DENMARK.

I FEEL QUITE CERTAIN THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED.

BUT THEY HAVE SHOWN THERE IS A PATH FOR U.S.

ENGAGEMENT AND TO PROTECTING A STRONG ARCTIC NATION WITHOUT ACTUALLY INVADING GREENLAND, WITHOUT COERCING NEITHER GREENLAND OR DENMARK, SO I HOPE THAT IS WHAT HAS HAPPENED, AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT HAS HAPPENED.

AND LET'S BE CLEAR, EVERYTHING THAT THE AMERICANS COULD WANT IN GREENLAND IS ACTUALLY ACCESSIBLE TO THEM WITHOUT COERCION OR INVASION.

THERE IS AN OLD AGREEMENT FROM 1951, I THINK MOST PEOPLE HAVE UNDERSTOOD IT EXISTS NOW, WE HAVE KNOWN THAT FOR A LONG TIME, WHICH ACTUALLY GIVES ACCESS FOR THE AMERICANS TO CREATE BASES IN GREENLAND.

THEY USED TO HAVE A BASE THERE WERE THERE WERE 10,000 STAFF MEMBERS, NOW THEY'RE BACK TO 200 BECAUSE THE AMERICANS THEMSELVES HAVE SCALED BACK OVER THE YEARS.

SO, THERE IS AN OPEN DOOR TO BECOMING A STRONG ARCTIC NATION FOR THE AMERICANS, AND OF COURSE, IN COLLABORATION WITH NATO.

>> I WANT TO PLAY A SOUND BITE FROM YOUR CURRENT PRIME MINISTER, WHO IS IN THE UK, IN LONDON WITH THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER BEFORE ATTENDING THE EU SUMMIT IN BRUSSELS, THIS IS WHAT SHE SAID TODAY.

>> EVERYBODY RECOGNIZES THAT IT HAS BEEN QUITE A DIFFICULT TIME FOR US, AND TO KNOW THAT YOU HAVE GOOD FRIENDS, STRONG ALLIES, AND THAT EUROPEANS STAND TOGETHER , DON'T GET DIVIDED, AND STICK TO OUR -- AS YOU SAID, OUR COMMON VALUES, EVEN IN A WORLD THAT IS CHANGING RAPIDLY.

IT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR ALL OF US.

WITH A LITTLE HELP FROM OUR FRIENDS.

ALSO IN THIS SITUATION POINT >> IT IS SO, HELLE THORNING- SCHMIDT, A BEATLES FAN, SHE IS, BUT DO YOU THINK -- >> AREN'T WE ALL?

>> THAT SHE IS RIGHT, THAT ACTUALLY THE EUROPEANS AND ALLIES DID PRESENT A UNIFIED FRONT, AND DID SAY ONE WAY OR ANOTHER TO PRESIDENT TRUMP THAT THIS WAS NOT ACCEPTABLE?

DO YOU THINK THAT'S WHAT WORKED?

>> YES, I THINK IT IS.

I THINK AS SOON AS PRESIDENT PROBLEM, AND ALSO A BRITISH PROBLEM BY LOOKING INTO TARIFFS, THERE WAS NO GOING BACK FROM EUROPEANS WORKING TOGETHER.

IT IS VERY INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT THERE WAS NO ONE FROM THE DANISH GOVERNMENT IN DARBUS THIS WEEK, AND I THINK THEY ACTUALLY STAYED AWAY BECAUSE THIS HAS NOW BECOME A EUROPEAN ISSUE.

IT IS NOT ONLY BETWEEN DENMARK --THE KINGDOM OF DENMARK AND THE U.S., THIS HAS BECOME A EUROPEAN ISSUE, AND WHAT I HAVE SEEN IS THAT BASICALLY NATO AND EUROPE HAVE ASSERTED ITSELF, AND TRIED TO LOOK LIKE A COLLECTIVE THIS PAST WEEK OR THESE PAST TWO WEEKS, AND THAT'S WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT THIS DIPLOMACY IS TAKING PLACE.

I MEAN, THE DANISH PRIME MINISTER AND FOREIGN MINISTER, TRAVELING ALL OVER EUROPE TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR EUROPEAN FRIENDS STICK TO OUR ROOTS, OUR VALUES ABOUT RESPECTING THE SOVEREIGNTY OF ANOTHER STATE , PARTICULARLY ANOTHER NATO MEMBER STATE, AND RESPECTING INTERNATIONAL LAW, AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED THIS LAST WEEK.

I THINK THIS HAS BECOME A EUROPEAN PROBLEM AND A EUROPEAN ISSUE, AND IT IS MUCH BETTER THAN JUST BEING A PROBLEM BETWEEN THE KINGDOM AND THE U.S.

>> EXACTLY.

NOW, IN THIS EMERGENCY SUMMIT, WHICH IS APPARENTLY ABOUT GREENLAND, EVEN THOUGH PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS BACKED OFF HIS MOST AGGRESSIVE THREATS, WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL BE DISCUSSED?

FOR INSTANCE, AS YOU SAY, THE UNITED STATES THROUGH THAT 1951 TREATY DOES HAVE ACCESS ANYWHERE, ANYTIME, OBVIOUSLY AN AGREEMENT WITH YOU ALL, BUT NONETHELESS, IT HAS ACCESS, AND EQUIPMENT PACKETS 10,000 TROOPS OR MAYBE EVEN MORE IF IT WANTED TO DO SO, SO WHAT DETAILS, IF YOU WERE THE PRIME MINISTER, WHAT DETAILS DO YOU THINK NEED TO BE WORKED OUT TO MAKE THIS, YOU KNOW, TO SIGN, SEAL, AND DELIVER IT?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE IS A LONG TIME TILL WE CAN SIGN, SEAL, AND DELIVER BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY PARTIES IN THIS.

LET'S NOT FORGET THAT GREENLAND BELONGED TO THE GREENLAND PEOPLE, SO WE MUST NOT FORGET THAT.

AND ALL THIS TALK ABOUT MEETING AS EUROPEAN LEADERS, THERE IS A STRONG VOICE THAT NEEDS TO BE HEARD FROM THE GREENLANDERS, AND NOTHING SHOULD BE DECIDED WITHOUT OF COURSE THE KINGDOM OF DENMARK, BUT PARTICULARLY THE GREENLAND GOVERNMENT BEING PART OF THOSE DECISIONS, SO THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT, BUT EVERYONE KNOWS NOW THAT THE FIRE MIGHT HAVE BEEN DISTINGUISHED, BUT THE EMBERS ARE STILL THERE.

SO, WHAT I THINK THE EUROPEAN LEADERS SHOULD DO TONIGHT IS BASICALLY CONFIRMED THAT SOLIDARITY, CONFIRM THAT THIS IS A EUROPEAN ISSUE AND A NATO ISSUE, AND THEN DO A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN WHAT WE HAVE DONE UNTIL NOW.

THAT MEANS CREATING A EUROPEAN DANISH KINGDOM TASK FORCE THAT DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE, MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE PRESENT IN GREENLAND, AND SHOW THAT WE CAN BE PART OF THIS ARCTIC DEFENSE IF IT IS NEEDED, AND SHOW THAT THIS IS A NATO TASK.

SO, THERE ARE A FEW THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DONE, AND I DON'T CONSIDER THIS CRISIS HAS BLOWN OVER.

THERE IS A LOT TO DO, BUT WE ARE IN A BETTER PLACE RIGHT NOW THAN WE WERE YESTERDAY.

>> OKAY, MAYBE MOVE ON TO UKRAINE, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY THE REALLY BEATING HEART OF A LOT OF THIS PROBLEM, CERTAINLY THE THREAT IN RUSSIA, FOR EUROPE IS VERY, VERY PARAMOUNT PRESIDENT TRUMP LAMES IT IS IN ARCTIC WATERS AS WELL.

TRUMP AND ZELENSKYY MET, THEY SAY THERE IS STILL A WAYS TO GO.

HE IS SENDING HIS SPECIAL ENVOYS TO MEET PUTIN IN MOSCOW, TENDERED THIS TRILATERAL MEETING SCHEDULED OVER THE WEEKEND IN THE UAE.

BUT HERE YOU ARE TALKING OF THE UNITY AND THE STRENGTH AND THE RESOLVE OF EUROPE.

ZELENSKYY HAD A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT TAKE, LET ME PLAY WHAT HE SAID.

>> REMAINS BEAUTIFUL, BUT KALEIDOSCOPE OF SMALL AND MIDDLE POWERS , INSTEAD OF TAKING THE LEAD, IN DEFENDING FREEDOM WORLDWIDE, ESPECIALLY WHERE AMERICA [ INAUDIBLE ].

TRYING TO CONVINCE THE U.S.

PRESIDENT TO CHANGE.

HE HAS OBVIOUSLY HAD A ROUGH TIME WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP AND IT'S AT SUBSTANTIAL FOR HIM, THIS SITUATION NOW.

>> ABSOLUTELY, HE HAD A ROUGH TIME IN GENERAL FOR YEARS NOW, SO I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT HE COMES OUT AND IS QUITE FRUSTRATED AT THIS TIME.

I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT I ACTUALLY THINK THE EUROPEANS HAVE STUCK TOGETHER ON UKRAINE AS WELL.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SO EASY FROM THE BEGINNING NOT TO ENGAGE, AND BASICALLY HAVE CHOSEN SOME KIND OF RANDOM PIECE WHERE RUSSIA HAD WON, RATHER THAN JUSTICE FOR UKRAINE.

AND I STILL THINK THAT EUROPEANS ARE ON THE SIDE OF JUSTICE FOR UKRAINE, AND MANY COUNTRIES HAVE BEEN A STAUNCH SUPPORTER OF UKRAINE, AND ALSO THE UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT AND PRESIDENT.

SO, IT'S TRUE THAT WE ARE SMALL AND MEDIUM-SIZED MEMBER STATES, WE CAN'T CHANGE THAT, BUT I DO THINK EUROPEAN NATIONS ARE WORKING SO HARD ON UKRAINE, AND NOW ON GREENLAND AS WELL, TO TRY TO KEEP IT TOGETHER.

I HAVE BEEN MYSELF AT A MEETING LIKE WHAT IS GOING ON TONIGHT IN BRUSSELS.

WE ARE NOT ONE NATION, WE ARE DIFFERENT MEMBER STATES WITH DIFFERENT FOREIGN POLICY PRIORITIES, BUT DESPITE THAT, WE HAVE ACTUALLY MANAGED TO STICK TOGETHER, SO, I AM QUITE PROUD OF THE EUROPEAN EFFORT IN THIS.

YOU CAN ALWAYS WANT MORE, YOU CAN ALWAYS WANT MORE UNITY AND TO SCALE UP OUR ACTUAL PHYSICAL HELP FOR UKRAINE, BUT I DO THINK THAT EUROPEANS HAVE HELD TOGETHER IN THIS MASSIVE CRISIS.

>> CAN I DO A QUICK SERVE -- SWERVING VERY QUICKLY, ALSO TODAY, PRESIDENT TRUMP UNVEILED THE SPORT OF PEACE, IT WAS DESIGNED FOR GAZA, MAYBE REPLACE THE U.N., THAT IS KIND OF WHAT THEY ARE IMPLYING, MOST CRITICALLY, YOUR CEO OF SAVE THE CHILDREN AND YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO GAZA, AND YOU ALSO KNOW THAT ISRAEL HAS NOW PUT CONDITIONS ON NGOs WHO TRY TO HELP PEOPLE IN GAZA, WHETHER THEY ARE MEDICAL OR OTHER HUMANITARIANS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, HOW DO YOU THINK THE PEOPLE OF GAZA WILL GET HELP IF THE NGOs ARE SQUEEZED OUT?

>> YEAH, THANK YOU FOR ASKING THAT QUESTION BECAUSE IT IS SO CLOSE TO MY HEART.

I ALSO HAVE SEEN SO MANY CHILDREN IN WAR AND CONFLICT , SO, I HAVE MET THOSE FAMILIES, THOSE MOTHERS, THOSE CHILDREN.

AND I REALLY URGE THE AMERICANS -- THEY HAVE SO MUCH POWER AT THIS STAGE IN THE WORLD.

THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT TALKS ABOUT HOW MUCH POWER THE U.S.

HAVE, AND THAT IS TRUE.

SO, AM I URGING THE AMERICANS, NOT ONLY THE PRESIDENT, BUT THE WHOLE ADMINISTRATION AND EVERYONE WHO IS ELECTED IN THE U.S.

TO TRY TO GET NGOs AND HUMANITARIAN ORGANIZATIONS TO GET ONTO THE GROUND IN GAZA.

IT SHOULDN'T BE THAT HARD.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A GROUP OF PEOPLE, CHILDREN WHO HAVE BEEN THAT IS UNSUSTAINABLE.

THERE IS HUNGER, THERE IS LACK OF HEALTH SUPPLIES AND MEDICAL SUPPORT.

I REALLY URGE THIS STRONG AMERICA THAT WE CONSIDER OUR FRIEND, AND ON THE SIDE OF TRYING TO HELP IN PEACE, PLEASE PUSH THE ISRAELIS TO GET MEDICAL AID AND HUMANITARIAN ORGANIZATIONS INTO GAZA.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

FOUR DANISH PRIME MINISTER, HELLE THORNING-SCHMIDT, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>>> NOW TO IRAN WHERE AN INTERNET BLACKOUT STILL REMAINS IN PLACE TWO WEEKS ON FROM THE REGIME'S BRUTAL CRACKDOWN ON PROTESTERS.

TENS OF THOUSANDS HAVE TAKEN TO THE STREETS FOR WEEKS OVER THE COST OF LIVING, AND THEN IT GREW INTO RALLIES AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT ITSELF.

AT LEAST 4622 PROTESTERS WERE KILLED , ACCORDING TO A U.S.

BASED HUMAN RIGHTS GROUP, AND THE PHONE NUMBER COULD BE HIGHER.

THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC ITSELF ADMITS TO 3000 DEATHS, AND CLAIMS THEY WERE FORCED TO RESPOND AFTER WRITERS KILLED SECURITY FORCES AND CARRIED OUT VIOLENCE.

BUT WITH THE INTERNET STILL RESTRICTED, SUCH CLAIMS ARE HARD TO VERIFY.

CORRESPONDENT [ INAUDIBLE ] HAS THIS REPORT ON WHAT HAPPENED THE NIGHT THAT YOUR AUNT WENT DARK, AND OF COURSE, WE WARN YOU THAT SOME OF THE IMAGES ARE DISTRESSING.

>> IT WAS 8:00 P.M.

ON THURSDAY, JANUARY 8th, JUST AS THESE INCREDIBLE IMAGES WERE EMERGING FROM PROTESTERS IN IRAN AND OTHER CITIES, IRAN WENT DARK.

UNDER THE COVER OF THE DIGITAL DARKNESS, THE REGIME LAUNCHED ONE OF THE BLOODIEST CHAPTERS IN THE HISTORY OF THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC.

>> [ SCREAMING ] >> [ INAUDIBLE ] I SAW GUNS.

THEY DIDN'T ALLOW MANY OF THE [ INAUDIBLE ] TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL.

>> Reporter: THIS PROTESTERS SPOKE TO US FROM AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION AFTER LEAVING IRAN.

THIS IS NOT HIS REAL NAME, BUT FOR HIS SAFETY, WE ARE NOT IDENTIFYING HIM.

HE IS ONE OF THE COUNTLESS IRANIANS WHO JOINED THE PROTESTS.

>> THE BLOOD WAS ALL OVER THE STREETS.

THREE BODIES COLLAPSED .

[ INAUDIBLE ] MY LEFT HAND.

SHE WAS NEAR ME.

AND THE GUY [ INAUDIBLE ].

>> HE TOOK TO THE STREETS AGAIN AFTER A DAY SPENT IN TEHRAN'S LARGEST CEMETERY WHERE SEEMS LIKE THIS PLAYED OUT, SURROUNDED BY GRIEF, ANGER, AND CHAOS, HE SEARCHED THROUGH THE DEAD FOR THE BODY OF A FAMILY FRIEND WHO WAS SHOT IN THE NECK.

>> I SAW TWO LAYERS OF DEAD BODIES .

IN MY EYES, I CAN SAY, 1500 UP TO 2000 JUST IN ONE WAREHOUSE.

[ INAUDIBLE ] I REALIZED THAT, OH MY GOSH, THESE ARE CHILDREN, MANY OF THEM.

>> Reporter: HIS HARROWING ACCOUNT IS CONSISTENT WITH OTHER TESTIMONY AND VERIFIED VISUAL EVIDENCE COLLECTED BY CNN AND HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS FROM VARIOUS REPORTS ARE PROTEST SITES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

A WIDESPREAD COORDINATED ATTACK BY REGIME FORCES, BURNING THE STREETS OF IRAN INTO SOMETHING THAT ASSEMBLED A WAR ZONE.

>> THEY WERE SHOOTING AT US FROM THE TOP OF THE BUILDING, AND [ INAUDIBLE ].

THEY ARE AIMING WITH LASERS AND THE SHOOTERS WERE SHOOTING PEOPLE IN THE FACE.

THEY MASSACRED PEOPLE.

>> WE STARTED HEARING GUNSHOTS AND FEELING TEARGASSED FROM BEHIND.

IN IRAN, WE CALL THIS THE SCISSOR.

THEY SENT FORCES TO THE BACK OF THE PROTESTS TO START HITTING PEOPLE FROM THE BACK AND THE FRONT.

>> THE FROM 12:00 A.M.

THURSDAY NIGHT ONWARD, THE TYPE OF INJURIES CHANGED.

THE LIVE ROUNDS STARTED BUT I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS.

THE SOUND OF HEAVY MACHINE GUNS IN THE CITY IS SOMETHING YOU ONLY SEE IN MOVIES.

>> Reporter: THE LITTLE VIDEO THAT HAS BROKEN THROUGH THE REGIME 'S WALL OF CENSORSHIP, NOT ONLY CAPTURES THE HORROR, BUT ALSO SHOWS THE FORCES AND WEAPONRY DEPLOYED TO MAJOR URBAN CENTERS LIKE TEHRAN.

A TACTIC NOT PREVIOUSLY SEEN ON THIS SCALE OUTSIDE OF MINORITY DOMINATED BORDER REGIONS.

THIS IS A REGIME THAT HAS NEVER TOLERATED DISSENT.

ONE WITH A LONG HISTORY OF CRUSHING PROTESTS VIOLENTLY, BUT THIS WAS LIKE NOTHING ANYONE HAD EVER SEEN BEFORE.

>> IT IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT LEVEL OF VIOLENCE AND BRUTALITY.

>> THE MAHMOUD HAS SPENT HIS LIFE DOCUMENTING ATROCITIES COMMITTED BY THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC.

HE SAYS THIS CRACKDOWN IS UNPARALLELED IN SCOPE AND LETHALITY.

>> EVERYWHERE, WE HAD WITNESS TESTIMONIES.

WE HAVE BEEN GOING --DOING IT THE SAME WAY, USING LIVE AMMUNITION, MILITARY GRADE WEAPON , WITH THE AIM AS KILLING AS MANY AS POSSIBLE, EVEN THOSE INJURED ON THE GROUND.

>> IRAN'S LEADERSHIP HAS ADMITTED THAT THOUSANDS WERE KILLED, BUT BLAMED THE DEATHS ON RIOTERS AND AGENTS OF ISRAEL AND THE U.S.

THEY RELEASED VIDEO LIKE THIS ON STATE MEDIA, CLAIMING TO SHOW VIOLENCE COMMITTED BY PROTESTERS.

THE REGIME HAS LONG USED THE PLOT TO JUSTIFY ITS CRACKDOWNS BUT THIS TIME, IT HAD AN EXILED OPPOSITION AND A U.S.

PRESIDENT URGING [ INAUDIBLE ].

>> I THINK THAT THE REGIME HAS NEVER BEEN CLOSER TO A FALL, TO A COMPLETE REGIME CHANGE.

THEY ARE DOING IT FOR SURVIVAL, BUT ALSO TO PREVENT MORE PROTESTS IN THE COMING YEARS.

THE AIM IS TO TRAUMATIZE A GENERATION.

>> EVEN FOR THOSE WHO KNOW THE REGIME'S BRUTALITY ALL TOO WELL, THIS IS JUST TOO MUCH TO BEAR.

>> I AM SO SORRY.

>> WE HAVE NO OTHER OPTION.

THOSE WHO HAVE LOST THEIR LOVED ONES, BUT THEY STILL SPEAK OUT, AND THAT INSPIRES US.

>> Reporter: THE WORLD MAY NEVER KNOW THE REAL SCALE OF THE LOSS AND PAIN AS A SCARRED NATION SLOWLY EMERGES FROM THE NIGHT IRAN WENT DARK.

>> THAT IS A VERY DRAMATIC REPORT AND IT IS STUFF THAT WE HAVE NOT SEEN YET, BUT WE HAVE HEARD A LOT ABOUT IT.

HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS HAVE REPORTED THAT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ARRESTED BY AUTHORITIES, AND MY NEXT GUEST KNOWS THIS TERROR FIRSTHAND.

HAVING BEEN LOCKED UP IN THE NOTORIOUS PRISON IN TEHRAN FOR ALMOST EIGHT YEARS, HE IS AN IRANIAN AMERICAN BUSINESSMAN AND WAS JAILED BY THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC ON FALSE CHARGES BACK IN 2015.

HE WAS FINALLY RELEASED AS PART OF A DEAL BETWEEN THE U.S.

AND IRAN IN 2023 POINT IN A NEW ARTICLE FOR THE MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE, HE EXPLAINS WHY HE BELIEVES THE REGIME COLLAPSE IS LIKELY, DEMOCRACY IS NOT.

AND HE IS JOINING ME NOW FROM WASHINGTON, D.C.

WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROBLEM --PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH , CHRISTIANE , IT IS A PLEASURE TO BE HERE BUT >> YEAH, HARD TO WATCH THAT, THOUGH.

JUST GIVE ME YOUR IMPRESSION OF THAT TESTIMONIAL.

>> I AM AT A LOSS FOR WORDS.

THESE ARE THE IMAGES THAT WE HAVE BEEN SEEING FOR THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS COMING OUT OF THE IRAN, AND I WOULD SAY THERE IS FAR MORE VIOLENT AND GRUESOME THINGS THAT WE ARE SEEING AND HEARING, OBVIOUSLY.

THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC HAS EFFECTIVELY TURNED INTO AN OCCUPYING POWER.

I MEAN, IT'S TRYING TO SUBSTITUTE VIOLENCE FOR GOVERNANCE.

AND TERRORIZE PEOPLE BACK INTO THEIR HOMES, BUT IT'S JUST AT A SCALE --EVEN THOUGH WE ARE USED TO SEEING THE VIOLENCE AND THE HORROR THAT THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC IS CAPABLE OF , THIS IS JUST AT A SCALE THAT HAS US ALL PAUSE AND -- AS YOU CAN SEE, I'M JUST AT A LOSS FOR WORDS.

>> WELL, LET ME JUST INTERVENE THEN.

YOU KNOW, CLEARLY, AS YOU SAID, AUTHORITARIANISM AND TOTALITARIANISM, AND YOU KNOW, THE ABILITY OF THIS KIND OF GROUP TO STAY IN POWER, IT IS ALL ABOUT SELLING TERROR, THAT'S WHY THEY PUT THAT STUFF ON STATE TV AS EYEWITNESSES WERE SAYING, TO KEEP PEOPLE AWAY AND OFF THE STREETS.

CAN YOU REMEMBER, BECAUSE I CAN'T, BACK IN 1969, WHEN THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC CAME INTO BEING , THAT AFTER THE REVOLUTION, I REMEMBER THEM PUTTING ON STATE TELEVISION, PICTURES OF EXECUTED FORMER LEADERS OF THE SHAH'S REGIME, WHETHER THEY WERE MILITARY OR POLITICAL, HANGINGS.

YOU KNOW, IT WAS VERY, VERY BLOODY IN THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH OF THE REVOLUTION, AND I GUESS I DIDN'T FULLY GET IT BACK THEN THAT THIS WAS NOT JUST SHOWING THE WORLD, BUT IT WAS TO SHOW THE WORLD THAT THIS WAS HOW IT WAS BEING CEMENTED.

>> THAT IS --THAT IS TRUE.

I WANT TO MENTION THAT THE SHAH CLEAR CHOICE , THAT HE LEFT THE COUNTRY INSTEAD OF SUBMITTING TO SLAUGHTERING PEOPLE AND TRYING TO RETAIN POWER.

THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC HAS NO SUCH COMPUNCTIONS, IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM MURDERING PEOPLE, AND AS YOU SAY, IT'S VERY EXISTENCE STARTED WITH A REIGN OF TERROR.

WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IS WHEN A CERTAIN HARD-LINE GROUP WITHIN THE REVOLUTIONARY EAST CONSOLIDATED POWER ESSENTIALLY BY TERRORIZING AND MURDERING THE OTHER GROUP, BUT AGAIN, WITHIN MY LIFETIME AND I THINK MY PARENTS ' LIFETIME AT LEAST, THIS IS JUST AT A SCALE THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE, AND I AM AFRAID IT COULD BE JUST THE BEGINNING.

>> BEGINNING OF WHAT?

LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY, THE PEOPLE, THE MAJORITY IS --AND WE HAVE DOCUMENTED IT, WE HAVE DONE THE REPORTING ON THE GROUND, I HAVE COVERED THE ELECTIONS, YOU HAVE SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN JAIL HEARING IT EVEN FROM THE PEOPLE WITHIN, WHO ARE IN JAIL, WE WILL GET TO THAT IN A MINUTE, BUT THEY HAVE WANTED CHANGE AND FREEDOM.

THEY WERE EXHAUSTED, I REMEMBER THEM TELLING ME, AFTER THE REVOLUTION OF RISK IS 79, AND THEY WEREN'T LOOKING FOR A REVOLUTION THAT, THEY JUST WANTED FREEDOMS AND CHANGE AND TO BE A NORMAL COUNTRY.

BUT NOW, 47 YEARS LATER, CLEARLY, THEIR TOLERANCE FOR CHANGE HAS INCREASED.

BUT YOU WRITE, IRAN'S COMING RECKONING, REGIME COLLAPSE IS LIKELY, DEMOCRACY IS NOT.

EXPLAIN THAT.

FIRST OF ALL, REGIME COLLAPSE.

>> SURE.

UM, WHAT I SAW IN EIGHT YEARS OF SORT OF BEING IN THE BELLY OF THE BEAST, I GAINED AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC WHERE IT HAS BEEN -- IT IS A HOLLOWED OUT REGIME, IT IS DEFINED AS RULE OF THOSE LEAST QUALIFIED TO RULE.

IT IS A REGIME THAT THE SUPREME LEADER HAS BEEN TRYING TO PROMOTE OR PROMOTING YES-MEN, AND BASICALLY TAKING ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN SEMI-QUALIFIED AWAY.

IT IS BESIDES BEING A MURDEROUS STATE, IT IS AN INCOMPETENT STATE, AND THAT IS THE MAIN THING I TALKED ABOUT IN THE ARTICLE WITH THE PATH OF REGIME OR THE FORMER SHAH, WHERE , FOR ALL THE GRIEVANCES THAT CAUSE THE 1979 REVOLUTION, THAT WAS A COMPETENT REGIME.

THE CURRENT ONE IS NOT, IT IS A HOLLOWED OUT SHELL OF A REGIME LEFT.

THE ONLY PILLAR LEFT THAT IT'S RELYING ON IS MASS MURDER, AND I THINK IT IS FAIR TO CALL THEM AT THIS POINT AN OCCUPYING POWER.

I WAS READING STATISTICS AND REALIZED WHEN SADDAM INVADED IRAN IN SEPTEMBER OF 1980, LESS PEOPLE WERE KILLED TO TAKE OVER [ INAUDIBLE ] THAN THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC SLAUGHTERED IN TWO DAYS THE OTHER WEEK.

STATISTIC AND A HORRIBLE THOUGHT.

THEY OBVIOUSLY SAY THAT THEY HAVE BEEN INFILTRATED, THERE WERE VIOLENT AGITATORS AND AGENTS OF FOREIGN POWERS.

I MEAN, DO YOU THINK THERE IS EVEN A GRAIN OF TRUTH IN THAT?

BECAUSE WE KNOW WHAT HAS BEEN DONE, THE ISRAELIS CLAIM IT PROBABLY PRETTY REMEMBER IN JUNE, THEY EVEN BOMBED THE PRISON WHERE YOU WERE, AND YOU SPOKE OUT AGAINST THAT BECAUSE IT KILLED THE WRONG PEOPLE.

IT DIDN'T LIBERATE PEOPLE.

BUT I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, WHAT DOES OUTSIDE INTERFERENCE DO TO A REGIME THAT BLAMES EVERYTHING ON OUTSIDE INTERFERENCE?

>> LOOK, CLEARLY, THERE WILL BE OUTSIDE INTERESTS IN IRAN AND THEY WILL DO WHAT THEY CAN DO TO PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS, BUT TO SAY THAT THE REASON PEOPLE WERE OUT ON THE STREET WAS BECAUSE OF AN OUTSIDE INFLUENCE IS RIDICULOUS AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED.

THE REASON PEOPLE ARE OUT IN THE STREET IS BECAUSE THIS IS AN ILLEGITIMATE, MURDEROUS REGIME THAT NEEDS TO GO.

IT IS FAILING TO PROVIDE FOR EVEN THE MOST BASIC OF NEEDS.

THE WATER OF THE COUNTRY THAT IRAN IS GETTING CANNOT SUPPLY BASIC WATER, ELECTRICITY, ENERGY, BASIC GOODS, MEDICINE, THIS IS BAD GOVERNANCE.

PEOPLE -- WE WERE SEEING IRANIAN PEOPLE CALL FOR CHANGE, AS YOU SAY, FOR DECADES, AND THE SUPREME LEADER AND THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC HAS MADE IT VERY CLEAR, THERE IS GOING TO BE NO CHANGE.

THE GAME IS TO KEEP THE STATUS QUO.

YOU SAW KHAMENEI'S VERSION OF WHAT HE WANTS, AND AT ANY COST, AND SO, PEOPLE ARE OUT IN THE STREETS BECAUSE THEY DON'T SEE IT TOMORROW UNLESS THEY GO OUT ON THE STREET.

>> YOU WERE IN PRISON ON FALSE CHARGES, BOGUS CHARGES, YOU CALL YOURSELF A HOSTAGE.

WERE RELEASED IN A DEAL BETWEEN IRAN AND THE UNITED STATES.

BUT YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THE PEOPLE YOU MET IN JAIL.

AND HONESTLY, I WAS QUITE SURPRISED, YOU TALK ABOUT REGIME INSIDERS, I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY GOT TO JAIL, BUT YOU CAN TELL ME, WHOSE BRAINS YOU WERE ABLE TO PICK, AND TALKING ABOUT THE ECONOMY, WHICH IS WHAT ACTUALLY STARTED THESE PROTESTS, AND THE SUPREME LEADER ACCEPTED THE FACT THAT THERE WAS ECONOMIC HARDSHIP, AND THE PRESIDENT DID, AND EVERYBODY DID.

THEY KNOW THAT.

BUT WHAT IS IT THAT YOU LEARNED FROM JAIL?

I MEAN, WE ALSO KNOW ABOUT THE INTERNATIONAL SANCTIONS WHICH HAVE CRIPPLED THE COUNTRY, BUT THE MISMANAGEMENT THAT YOU LEARNED ABOUT FROM REGIME INSIDERS IN JAIL >> THAT IS CORRECT.

YOUR FIRST QUESTION, HOW COME THESE REGIME INSIDERS END UP IN PRISON?

ESSENTIALLY, WHAT I SAW IS THAT THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OVER THE PAST FEW DECADES HAS BEEN TRANSFORMED TO A MAFIA SYSTEM.

SO, YOU CAN SEE THE ISLAMIC GROUP OF COMPETING UNDER BOSSES.

AND ESSENTIALLY, WHEN ONE UNDERBOSS GETS WEAK, THE OTHER ONES TAKE HIM OUT , AS THEY WOULD SAY, NOTHING PERSONAL, THEY WANT THEIR TURF.

THEY SEE, LET'S KNOCKOUT THIS GUY AND TAKE OVER HIS MULTIMILLION DOLLAR PORTFOLIO.

SO, YOU DO SEE, YOU KNOW, POWERFUL FORMER OFFICIALS, WHO MAY BE A WEEK EARLIER COULD HAVE MET WITH THE SUPREME LEADER, ENDING UP IN PRISON.

YOU ALSO SEE A LOT OF THE BIGGER ECONOMIC BUSINESSMEN, ET CETERA, IN PRISON.

ALL WALKS OF LIFE, FROM ACTIVISTS, HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYERS, JOURNALISTS, SO I THINK IT IS REALLY --THEY CALL IT [ INAUDIBLE ] UNIVERSITY FOR A REASON.

YOU DO GET EXPOSED TO QUITE -- QUITE AN ARRAY OF IRANIAN SOCIETY AND YOU GET AN UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THAT SYSTEM WORKS OR DOESN'T REALLY WORK.

SO, WHAT DID YOU LEARN SPECIFICALLY IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU SAID AND WHAT YOU CONCLUDED IN YOUR ARTICLE, THAT REGIME COLLAPSE, YES, DEMOCRACY, PROBABLY NOT.

WHY NOT CUSTOMER WHAT YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN IN THE EVENT OF A REGIME COLLAPSE?

>> I DON'T SEE IT AS IN THE EVENT OF, I THINK THIS REGIME WILL COLLAPSE.

AND I ARGUE IN THE ARTICLE THAT WHAT CANNOT GO ON WON'T.

I DO SEE TOO MUCH INCOMPETENCE FOR THIS TO CONTINUE.

I EXPLAINED, WHEN I GOT OUT, I REMEMBER A FRIEND ASKING ME WHAT WAS THE MOST SURPRISING THING OR WHAT SHOCKED ME THE MOST, AND IF YOU RECALL, I USED TO BE A CONSULTANT, I DID A LOT OF LITTLE RISK WORK FOR IRAN FOR THE BETTER PART OF A DECADE.

EVEN WITH THAT UNDERSTANDING OF IRAN WHEN I WENT IN, THE LEVEL OF CORRUPTION THAT I SAW JUST SHOCKED ME.

I MEAN, THE NUMBERS ARE ASTOUNDING.

THE ENTIRE COUNTRY, ANY SECTOR THAT I LOOKED AT RESEMBLES A PONZI SCHEME OF SORTS.

EVERYTHING IS GAINED.

I EXPLAINED THE BANKING A BIT, WHERE ALL OF IRAN'S BANKS, I AM NOT EXAGGERATING, THEY ARE ALL SOLVENT.

I MEAN, SOMEONE BRIBES IN ORDER TO --I'M SORRY, THE BASE OF ALL LOANS IN IRAN , TO SECURE THEM, THEY USE PROPERTY DEEDS.

AND THESE PROPERTY DEEDS ARE HIGHLY RATED, ABOUT TENFOLD.

THEN THE BANK TAKES THEM, YOU GET THE LOAN, AND OBVIOUSLY, WHEN THE TIME COMES TO PAY THEM BACK, THE PERSON WHO TOOK THE LOAN WITH A BRIDE THEN FORFEITS THE PROPERTY.

THE BANK THEN SELLS THAT TOXIC ASSET WITH A PROFIT TO THE NEXT BANK, WHICH KNOWS IT IS BUYING GARBAGE, BUT SELLS BACK THERE TOXIC ASSETS, AND THEY ALL THEREFORE LOG FALSE PROPHETS.

BUT THEY ARE ALL BANKRUPT AND THAT IS JUST ONE SECTOR.

WE CAN LOOK AT THE PHARMACEUTICAL CENTER, THE PETROCHEMICALS, ALL OF IT IS IN THAT KIND OF MESS.

AND THAT IS WHY THIS COUNTRY -- THAT REGIME CANNOT CONTINUE THE WAY IT IS, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU CONSIDER THAT MORE AND MORE OVER THE PAST 20 YEARS ESPECIALLY, THE SUPREME LEADER HAS PUT YES-MEN IN CHARGE.

>> WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE, BUT PEOPLE SHOULD READ YOUR ARTICLE AS IT REALLY IS FASCINATING, IT IS A DIFFERENT TAKE ON ALL OF THIS, AND CLEARLY, WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO WATCH THIS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED.

>>> NOW, AS TRUMP'S IMMIGRATION CRACKDOWN CONTINUES IN MINNESOTA, EVEN CHILDREN ARE GETTING CAUGHT UP IN THE SURGING ICE TACTICS THERE.

THIS IS A FIVE-YEAR-OLD, LEON RAMOS, A PRESCHOOLER, WAS DETAINED WITH HIS FATHER IN THEIR DRIVEWAY ON TUESDAY, THIS DESPITE HAVING AN IMPENDING CASE.

WHO HAVE BEEN DETAINED BY ICE IN MINNESOTA OVER THE PAST EIGHT WEEKS.

AS PROTESTERS FACE OFF AGAINST ICE, BISHOP HAS CALLED ON ALL THE CLERGY TO STAND UP FOR THE VULNERABLE, AND YOU SPOKE TO MICHELLE MARTIN ABOUT THE POWER OF SPEAKING OUT AT THIS TIME.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE .

BISHOP, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> IS SO, YOU OVERSEE CONGREGATIONS ACROSS NEW HAMPSHIRE, AND I AM SURE YOU TRAVEL EVEN MORE WIDELY BEYOND THAT.

I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DESCRIBE IT, POLARIZED, THAT IS ONE OF THE WORDS THAT COME TO MIND.

SOME PEOPLE ARE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THE AGGRESSIVE ACTIONS THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION IS TAKEN, OTHER PEOPLE ARE DEEPLY SHAKEN BY IT, DEEPLY DISTURBED BY IT, AND FEEL MORALLY CHALLENGED BY IT.

SO, AS YOU TALK TO YOUR CONGREGANTS, WHAT ARE THEY TELLING YOU.

>> WHAT THEY ARE SAYING MAINLY IS SETTING ASIDE ANY POLICY , THEY ARE EXPRESSING DEEP AND PROFOUND GRIEF, FRUSTRATION, AND SADNESS AT THE POLARIZATION AMONG US AND WITHIN US, AND THIS SENSE OF SPLINTERING.

THAT IS HAPPENING WITHIN THEIR COMMUNITIES.

THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT NO LONGER BEING REALLY ABLE TO TALK WITH THEIR NEIGHBORS.

WHAT TIMOTHY SNYDER ONCE WROTE ABOUT IN THAT LITTLE BOOK ON TYRANNY, TAKING LESSONS FROM THE 20th CENTURY THAT ONE THING THAT HAPPENS IS NEIGHBORS BECOME SUSPICIOUS OF ONE ANOTHER.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY STAND AND YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE VILIFIED BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN LABELED LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE , REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT .

AND I THINK PEOPLE HAVE BEEN COMING TO THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH BECAUSE GENERALLY, TO BE NEIGHBORS AGAIN.

AND IT'S BEEN SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN A HALLMARK OF OUR CONGREGATIONS FOR GENERATIONS, MAYBE TO THE POINT OF -- MAYBE NOT APPEARING AT ALL RELEVANT OR HAVING ANY KIND OF TRACTION IN THIS SOCIETY.

THEY ARE NOT TYPICALLY ENGAGED , BUT ARE SHOWING UP WITH GREATER NUMBERS, I AM DEFINITELY HEARING THAT CAN >> YOU CAME TO NATIONAL ATTENTION AFTER REMARKS YOU MADE AT A VIGIL FOR RENEE GOOD, WHO IS THE AMERICAN WOMAN, YOU KNOW, WIFE, MOM OF THREE, WHO WAS FATALLY SHOT BY AN ICE AGENT EARLIER THIS MONTH.

SO, THE FIRST THING I WANTED TO ASK IS WHAT BROUGHT YOU TO THAT VIGIL?

>> I'M NOT AN ACTIVIST.

I FIND MYSELF --I TRIED TO BE A MAN OF YOUR AND STUDY THE BIBLE AND A PASTOR, AND I SPENT THE WEEK WITH OTHER BISHOPS IN THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH IN A SAINT BENEDICT CENTER, AND THERE WERE JUST A FEW BISHOPS.

ONE OF WHOM WAS THE BISHOP, THE CURRENT BISHOP OF MINNESOTA.

AND WE WERE IN YOUR AND STUDYING GOD'S PRESENCE AND SPENDING A LOT OF TIME IN SILENCE ON WEDNESDAY MORNING OF THAT WEEK.

BISHOP CRAIG LOYA WAS CALLED OUT OF THE MEETING, OF OUR SESSIONS, BECAUSE OF THIS SLAYING OF RENEE GOOD AND HE NEEDED TO RESPOND.

AND I WAS JUST OFF THE AIRPLANE FROM THAT RETREAT WHEN I WAS ASKED TO SPEAK AT THIS VIGIL ON FRIDAY NIGHT, IT WAS A COLD, RAINY, DARK NIGHT IN CONCORDE RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE STATEHOUSE, WHEN A NUMBER OF THINGS WERE SAID, AND I SPOKE --I WAS SPEAKING PRIMARILY, I WAS ADDRESSING THE CHRISTIANS WHO WERE IN ATTENDANCE AT THAT VIGIL, BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT THAT I TALK ABOUT OUR OWN TRADITION AND OUR OWN FAITH.

>> HERE IS WHAT YOU SAID, YOU SAID I HAVE TOLD THE CLERGY OF THE EPISCOPAL DIOCESE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE TO GET THEIR AFFAIRS IN ORDER, TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE THEIR WILLS WRITTEN, BECAUSE IT MAY BE THAT NOW IS NO LONGER THE TIME FOR STATEMENTS, BUT FOR US WITH OUR BODIES TO STAND BETWEEN THE POWERS OF THIS WORLD AND THE MOST VULNERABLE.

SO, I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS, WHICH IS, HAD YOU GONE THEY'RE PREPARED TO MAKE THIS STATEMENT, HAD THIS BEEN IN YOUR MIND AND ON YOUR HEART AT THAT TIME, OR WHAT WAS IT THAT --THAT BROUGHT THAT FORWARD?

>> WELL, I HAVE MADE SOME STATEMENTS BEFORE, I REMEMBER MAKING STATEMENTS DURING THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, ESPECIALLY WHEN HE WENT ACROSS THE STREET TO TALK IN FRONT OF ST.

JOHN'S EPISCOPAL CHURCH IN LAFAYETTE SQUARE AND CLAIMED THE POWER OF GOD BEHIND HIM, HOLDING A BIBLE.

WHAT I SAID WAS NO DIFFERENT.

WHAT I HAVE TOLD THE CLERGY OR THE CONGREGATIONS I HAVE SERVED FOR 35 YEARS OF MINISTRY , THAT OUR BAPTISM TELLS US WHEN WE BLESS WATER OVER THE WATER OF BAPTISM, WE SAY IN THIS WATER, YOU ARE BURIED WITH CHRIST, YOU SHARE IN HIS DEATH, AND IN THIS WATER, YOU ARE ALSO RAISED BY HIM IN HIS RESURRECTION.

WE TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SHARING OUR LIFE FOR OTHERS, AND JESUS TALKS ABOUT TAKING UP THE CROSS.

HE TALKS ABOUT IT TO ST.

PETER.

YOU KNOW?

THIS IS NOT JUST A MOMENT OF PICK UP YOUR CROSS AND RELAX.

I AM GOING TO JERUSALEM, JESUS SAYS, THIS IS AT THE CORE OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH.

ROMAN CATHOLIC, ORTHODOX, IT'S WHAT I LIVE AND BREATHE.

SO, IT WASN'T ANYTHING NEW.

IN FACT, THE CLERGY IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, THEY HEARD ME TALK ABOUT GETTING THEIR SPIRITUAL PLACE , YOU KNOW, DWELLING IN THAT PRESENCE, THAT LIFE-GIVING , DEATH-DEFYING PRESENCE OF GOD, AND HAVING THEIR WILLS PREPARED, GETTING THEIR AFFAIRS IN ORDER AS MUCH AS THEIR SPIRITUAL AFFAIRS IN ORDER.

I TOLD THAT TO THEM MOST RECENTLY IN SEPTEMBER AND OCTOBER, IT WAS SHORTLY AFTER THE CHARLIE KIRK ASSASSINATION.

IT WAS WHEN WE HAD JUST HEARD OF A POLL DONE SAYING THAT AMERICANS NOW BELIEVE THAT THE WAY OUT OF THIS POLITICAL CRISIS THAT WE ARE IN IS THROUGH POLITICAL VIOLENCE, AND THAT EVEN DEMOCRATS ARE THE FASTEST GROWING SEGMENT OF THOSE POLLED BELIEVE THAT.

SO, IT IS AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT WE ARE LIVING IN VERY VIOLENT, FRAUGHT, PERILOUS TIMES, JUST BY LIVING OUR LIVES, JUST BY, YOU KNOW, DROPPING OFF A CHILD AT SCHOOL.

THAT WHATEVER WE ARE DOING, UM, WE ARE NOT SEEKING TO STAND IN FRONT OF A LOADED GUN, BUT THAT IS PART OF OUR TRADITION.

I DIDN'T COME NECESSARILY PREPARED, I HAD NO PREPARED REMARKS AT THAT MOMENT, I SAID WHAT WAS IN MY HEART >> YOU ALSO USED THE PHRASE, A NEW ERA OF MARTYRDOM.

AND WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT MARTYRDOM, WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO NAME?

>> TODAY, I AM IN A MONASTERY IN CAMBRIDGE RIGHT NOW, WE JUST CELEBRATED THE FEAST OF AGNES AND CECELIA, TWO YOUNG GIRLS WHO DIDN'T MARRY IN THE WAY THEIR PARENTS OR THEIR LOCAL CIVIC AUTHORITIES WANTED THEM TO BEHAVE.

AND THEY WERE BEHEADED , WERE SLAIN.

YOU KNOW, THEY WEREN'T LOOKING FOR THAT.

JONATHAN DANIELS WHITE, A MIDDLE-CLASS SEMINARIAN FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE, WAS WANTING TO COME ALONGSIDE BLACKS IN SELMA AND ALABAMA, GETS THROWN IN JAIL, AND TAKES THE BLAST , A WHO WAS AIMING AT A BLACK GIRL.

HOW MANY BLACK PEOPLE OR PEOPLE OF COLOR OVER , YOU KNOW, OTHER MINORITIES, WHO WERE SIMPLY DRIVING THEIR CAR ARE ACCOSTED AND DON'T SURVIVE THE DRIVE?

DO WE CALL THEM MARTYRS OR NOT?

I SEE RENEE GOOD POSSIBLY AS -- HISTORY WILL DECIDE WHETHER CHARLIE KIRK IS A MARTYR, BUT IF WE LIVE OUR LIVES IN FREEDOM AND LOVE WHO WE ARE CALLED TO LOVE, STAND WITH WHOM WE ARE CALLED TO STANDBY, WITHOUT FEAR OF THE AUTHORITIES OF THIS WORLD , AND IF THAT COSTS US OUR APPEARANCES, OUR STATUS, PERHAPS OUR LIVES, WE ARE TO BE READY.

>> WELL, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR YOU, BECAUSE AS YOU SHARED, YOU DON'T CONSIDER YOURSELF AN ACTIVIST, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR YOU?

THINK, IS THAT I --I GO TO RALLIES, I SEE RALLIES OF THOSE WHO MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEWPOINT OF MINE IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE STATEHOUSE THERE ARE NO KINGS RALLIES, THERE ARE RALLIES TO COUNTER GUN VIOLENCE, THERE ARE PRO-LIFE RALLIES, ANTIABORTION RALLIES, AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT IN AN OPEN CARRY STATE LIKE NEW HAMPSHIRE, THERE ARE PEOPLE ON THE WINGS, ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF THOSE PROTESTS, WHO ARE CARRYING WEAPONS.

AND WE SEE PRETTY BELLIGERENT WORDS BEING SPOKEN, IF NOT BY THOSE, BUT BY THOSE WHO I MIGHT ASSUME CERTAINLY HAVE THEIR RIGHT TO HOLD THEM, IT DOESN'T BRING YOU NECESSARILY A SENSE OF SAFETY IN THAT MIX.

AND CERTAINLY AFTER THESE EVENTS.

AND IN THE MULTIPLE PUBLIC SLAYINGS OR ATTEMPTS AT SLAYING THAT WE HAVE SEEN, IT DOESN'T GIVE US A SENSE OF SAFETY.

SO, MY WORDS WERE TO SAY WE NEED TO BE IN A PLACE OF CONTEMPLATIVE ACTION BECAUSE WHEREVER WE ARE CALLED, HOWEVER WE ARE CHOSEN OR CALLED TO EXERCISE OUR LIVES OF FREEDOM, TO GO ABOUT OUR DAYS, NEW HAMPSHIRE, YOU KNOW, FIGHT OR DIE.

RENEE GOOD WAS LIVING FREE.

>> AND YOU TALKED ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF STANDING WITH PEOPLE RATHER THAN SPEAKING FOR THEM.

SO, IN A MOMENT LIKE THIS, DOES THAT CALL YOU AND THOSE WHO SERVE WITH YOU TO ANY PARTICULAR MISSION?

>> I THINK IT'S LESS A VOCAL MISSION.

STATEMENTS ONLY GO SO FAR.

AT WHAT POINT DO OUR BODIES BECOME THE STATEMENT?

THE WORD MARTYR COMES FROM THE GREEK, BUT SIMPLY MEANS A WITNESS.

BEARING TO THE TRUTH.

JOURNALIST, YOU ARE A MARTYR.

I AM SURE YOU DON'T GET ALL SORTS OF FAVORABLE COMMENTS.

I CERTAINLY HAVEN'T RECENTLY, I HAVE GOTTEN A LOT, BUT I HAVE GOTTEN A FEW THAT HAVE BEEN QUITE DISTURBING, AND THEY CALL ME TO A PLACE OF SAYING, OKAY, WHATEVER HAPPENS, OH GOD, WHATEVER HAPPENS, I AM YOURS, YOU ARE MINE, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT YOU LOVE ME, I KNOW YOU LOVE THE ONE WHO IS PURPORTED TO BE MY ENEMY.

>> YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU HAVE GOTTEN SOME REACTION.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THOSE REACTIONS, IF YOU DON'T MIND SHARING?

>> I AM WATCHING YOU.

SOME THAT HAVE BEEN LABELED FROM ICE OR LAW ENFORCEMENT.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE LEGITIMATE.

YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME , YOU KNOW, STAY IN YOUR LANE THREATS.

THERE IS NO SAYING -- THERE IS WATCHING YOU, AND IF YOU WANT TO BE A MARTYR, I AM HAPPY TO OBLIGE.

WE HAVE BEEN IN TOUCH WITH OUR VERY FRIENDLY, CAPABLE, AND COMPETENT LAW ENFORCEMENT, BOTH NEAR OUR OFFICES AND WHERE I LIVE, AND YOU KNOW, I FEEL A LITTLE THIS I HAVE TO LIVE WITHOUT FEAR.

>> IS SO, BISHOP, I KNOW YOU ARE AWARE THAT AMONG THE REACTIONS, THERE ARE THOSE WHO SAY THAT YOUR WORDS INFLAMED TENSIONS OR HAVE THE POSSIBILITY OF INFLAMING TENSIONS, RATHER THAN CALLING THEM.

I MEAN, TO THAT END, THE SPOKESPERSON FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, WHICH OVERSEES ICE, CALLED YOUR REMARKS ABSURD, AND SAID THAT IF YOU REALLY WANT TO TAKE A STAND FOR THE VULNERABLE, YOU SHOULD STANDBY ICE AGENTS WHO ARE INCREASINGLY UNDER ATTACK.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THEM?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I WILL SAY WHAT ST.

PAUL SAID, THE CROSS IS ALWAYS FOOLISHNESS, IT IS ALWAYS ABSURD, IT IS ALWAYS GOING TO UPSET THOSE WHO HAVE WEAPONS AT THEIR DISPOSAL.

IT IS ALWAYS GOING TO FRUSTRATE THE WAY OF THE POWERFUL.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE ABSURDITY OF IT, I WILL TAKE THAT.

YEAH, IT IS ABSURD, IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE THAT THE WAY OF THOSE WHO ARE WITHOUT POWER, WHO ARE UNHARMED, I PRAY, AT THESE PROTESTS, I HOPE, ARE GOING TO FRUSTRATE ICE AND ALL THE MACHINERY THAT IS BEHIND THEM.

I MEANT IN NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM TO INFLAMED OR INSIGHT, BUT TO STAND ALONGSIDE THOSE WHO FIND THEMSELVES VULNERABLE TO THE POWERS OF THIS WORLD , WHO ARE SEEKING UNJUSTLY, AND UNFAIRLY , AND VIOLENTLY TO EXERCISE , UM, [ INAUDIBLE ].

>> THE WHITE HOUSE HAS DOUBLED DOWN.

THEY ISSUED A STATEMENT SAYING, NO ONE SHOULD FOLLOW ADVICE ENCOURAGING THEM TO COMMIT CRIMES.

ANYONE WHO INTERFERES WITH FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OPERATIONS IS COMMITTING A CRIME AND WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW, THAT COMES FROM ABIGAIL JOHNSON WHO IS A WHITE HOUSE SPOKESPERSON.

HOW WOULD YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

>> I THINK THAT THOSE WHO ARE SHOWING UP IN MINNEAPOLIS AND WHO MAY SHOW UP IN OTHER PLACES, SIMPLY, WE HAVE THE FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY, WE HAVE THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

THOSE ARE NOT CRIMES, THEY SHOULDN'T BE IN THIS COUNTRY.

FREEDOM TO EXERCISE OUR RELIGION, I DON'T SEE IT A CRIME.

>> IT'S INTERESTING, THIS ADMINISTRATION TAKES A SORT OF VERY EXPENSIVE VIEW OF WHAT CONSTITUTES A CRIME, BUT THEIR ARGUMENT SEEMS TO BE THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE , YOU KNOW, FOLLOWING ICE AGENTS, PHOTOGRAPHING ICE AGENTS, ET CETERA, OBJECTING TO THE WAY THEY ARE CONDUCTING THEMSELVES, ARE COMMITTING CRIMES, AND IN SOME CASES, THEY EVEN CALLED RENEE GOOD A TERRORIST, A DOMESTIC TERRORIST.

WE CAN NOW SEE, BECAUSE THERE WERE SO MANY CAMERAS, INCLUDING THE OFFICER'S BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE, SEVERAL, WE HAVE NOW SEEN THIS EVENT FROM MULTIPLE ANGLES.

SO, I'M JUST WONDERING, WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS THAT PEOPLE LOOK AT THE SAME THING AND SEE SUCH DIFFERENT THINGS?

>> I AM NOT A SOCIAL SCIENTIST AND I -- AND I HADN'T REALLY STUDIED THE VIDEO.

BUT I MEAN, I HAVE SEEN IT ENOUGH TO KNOW, TO FEEL, TO BE CONVINCED THAT THE POWERFUL INFLICTED VENGEANCE AND RAGE ON THE POWERLESS.

THAT WE ARE ALL INFECTED BY HUMAN SIN.

WE ALL ACT AS A SENSE OF SELF PROTECTION.

RENEE GOOD WAS -- IF SHE WAS IN MINNESOTA AND NOT IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, WHICH IS LIVE FREE OR DIE, SHE WAS LIVING FREE, AND SHE WAS BEARING WITNESS.

I UNDERSTAND SHE WAS A CHRISTIAN, BUT SHE WAS BEARING WITNESS TO AMERICAN FREEDOM.

AND THIS IS THE KIND OF OPPRESSION AND TYRANNY THAT THE BEST PART OF AMERICA RAILS AGAINST.

AND SHE WAS MADE IN THE IMAGE OF GOD, AS WAS THE ICE AGENT, AND YOU KNOW, WE ARE CAUGHT UP IN A MAELSTROM OF BROKENNESS AND CATASTROPHE, AND THE ONLY WAY I CAN SEE THROUGH IT IS THROUGH PEACEFUL RESISTANCE , AND THAT MAY MEAN THAT MANY OF US -- SOME OF US WILL GIVE UP THEIR LIVES, OTHER OF US MAY JUST GIVE UP THEIR REPUTATION OR THEIR COMFORT LEVEL, BY GOING TO A SCHOOL BOARD MEETING OR A TOWN MEETING, WHERE THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT EDUCATIONAL POLICY OR SEGREGATION OR VOTING RIGHTS.

THAT IS THE KIND OF MARTYRDOM ITSELF.

AND IT ALL EMANATES FROM BEING STEEPED IN THIS SOURCE OF GOD'S LOVE FOR US , THAT IS A KIND OF BEING GROUNDED IN THE LOVE OF GOD, WHICH IS STRONGER THAN DEATH.

JESUS'S HOME ASHES --WHOLE MESSAGE WAS COME CLOSE, COME CLOSE TO THE LIFE OF GOD, AND IT MAY TAKE YOU TO PLACES YOU DON'T WANT TO GO, SO BE READY.

>> BISHOP, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU, I AM HONORED TO BE HERE, AND KEEP THE FAITH.

>> KEEP THE FAITH, INDEED.

>>> AND FINALLY, PERFORMANCE TO HEAL THE SCARS OF WAR.

THIS IS A KYIV BASED VETERANS LATER, A GROUP OF 15 SOLDIERS TURNED ACTORS, PERFORMING UKRAINIAN ADOPTION, TRADING GUNS AND THE FRONT LINE FOR AUDIENCES AND SCRIPTS.

THESE MAIMED OR INJURED VETERANS ARE SEARCHING FOR REHABILITATION ON STAGE AS THE WAR AGAINST RUSSIA GRINDS INTO ITS FIFTH YEAR, AND JUDGING FROM THE BOISTEROUS INNOVATION THEY RECEIVED ON OPENING NIGHT, IT SEEMS IT MIGHT BE WORKING POINT AND TURNING NOW FROM THE STAGE TO THE BIG SCREEN, THE 2026 ACADEMY AWARD NOMINATIONS ARE OUT, AND WE KNOW TWO FILMS TELLING THE STORIES OF COUNTRIES AT WAR AND CONFLICT, CUTTING THROUGH ROCKS, THE DOCUMENTARY ABOUT A FEMALE FIREBRAND FIGHTING THE PATRIARCHY IN RURAL IRAN, AND FROM GAZA, THE VOICE OF HIND JOB, A PALESTINIAN GIRLS DESPERATE PLEA FOR LIFE.

>> >> Translator: >> IT'S HER REAL VOICE.

BEAR WITNESS TO THE TRAGEDY ABOUT WAR'S YOUNGEST VICTIMS, AND HERE IS WHAT THE DIRECTOR TOLD ME ABOUT THE POWER OF HIND'S VOICE.

>> HER VOICE WAS SO ALIVE, SO IMMEDIATE THAT THE FEELING I HAD WHEN I UNDERSTOOD THE SITUATION WAS UNBEARABLE.

YOU KNOW, HEARING A CHILD PLEADING FOR HER LIFE, I FEEL HELPLESS, AND I HATED WHEN I FEEL HELPLESS, SO I ASK MYSELF, WHAT CAN I DO?

I'M A FILMMAKER, YOU KNOW, I CAN DO --I CAN GIVE A SPACE AT LEAST FOR THIS LITTLE GIRL TO BE REMEMBERED AND TO BE HEARD.

>> AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.