>>> WELL, NOW IN THE FACE OF A LOOMING IRANIAN ATTACK AGAINST ISRAEL, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS SCRAMBLING TO AVERT AN ESCALATION OF VIOLENCE, CARRYING OUT A DIPLOMATIC PRESS ON ITS ALLIES IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND CONVENING TOP WHITE HOUSE ADVISERS.

AMONG THEM, JAKE SULLIVAN, WHO JUST DAYS AGO HELPED SECURE THE RELEASE OF THREE AMERICANS HELD IN RUSSIA.

HE JOINS WALTER ISAACSON TO REFLECT ON THE LONG ROAD THAT LED TO THE HISTORIC PRISONER SWAP.

HIS CONCERNS FOR THE FUTURE OF A CEASE-FIRE DEAL BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS.

AND WHAT THE ADMINISTRATION HOPES TO ACCOMPLISH DURING ITS FINAL MONTHS IN OFFICE.

>> THANK YOU, BIANNA, AND JAKE SULLIVAN, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> ABOUT -- IN EARLY MAY, PRESIDENT BIDEN PUT OUT A CEASE-FIRE PLAN FOR GAZA AND THE MIDDLE EAST, AND WE THOUGHT WE WERE THERE, WE THOUGHT, WE WERE WITHIN A DAY OR TWO OF IT.

THEN ISRAEL ASSASSINATED THE TOP POLITICAL LEADER OF HAMAS WHEN HE WAS VISITING TEHRAN, AND JUST YESTERDAY, HAMAS PUT IN THE MASTERMIND OF THE OCTOBER 7th ATTACK AS ITS NEW TOP POLITICAL LEADER.

WHERE DO WE STAND ON A CEASE-FIRE, IS IT STILL POSSIBLE TO GET ONE IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS OR WEEKS?

>> WELL, IT'S STILL POSSIBLE.

THE ELEMENTS ARE THERE, THE FRAMEWORK IS THERE.

IT'S BEEN PROPOSED BY PRESIDENT BIDEN, ENDORSED BY THE U.N. SECURITY COUNCIL, ACCEPTED IN BROAD TERMS BY BOTH ISRAEL AND HAMAS.

AND SO, THEY REALLY NEED TO DRIVE THROUGH THE DETAILS TO GET TO A CONCLUSION.

NOW, GEORGE MITCHELL, THE SPECIAL ENVOY WHO NEGOTIATED PEACE IN NORTHERN IRELAND ONCE SAID ABOUT THESE NEGOTIATIONS THAT THERE ARE 1,000 DAYS OF FAILURE AND ONE DAY OF SUCCESS.

AND THAT'S ESPECIALLY TRUE IN THE MIDDLE EAST, WHERE YOU SEE INTERVENING EVENTS LIKE WHAT'S UNFOLDED OVER THE COURSE OF THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS.

BUT THE PRESIDENT'S DETERMINED TO GET THIS DONE, AND HE IS DETERMINED TO HOLD BOTH SIDES FEET TO THE FIRE TO GET TO A CONCLUSION WHERE WE HAVE A CEASE-FIRE AND A HOSTAGE DEAL, PAVING THE WAY FOR THE END OF THE WAR IN GAZA.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DRIVING AT.

JUST YESTERDAY, HE SPOKE WITH BOTH THE PRESIDENT OF EGYPT AND THE AMIR OF QATAR, THE OTHER TWO MEDIATORS ON THIS CEASE-FIRE PROPOSAL, TO TRY TO SET UP AN END GAME WHERE WE CAN ACTUALLY DELIVER THIS.

>> YOU HAD A NATIONAL SECURITY MEETING OVER THE WEEKEND IN WHICH YOU'RE TRYING TO PREPARE FOR THE POSSIBILITY AND IRAN'S PROXIES WILL DO A RETALIATORY ATTACK WHAT ARE WE DOING TO STOP THAT?

AND CAN THIS THING BE TAMPED DOWN?

>> WELL, AS YOU NOTE, THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN HUDDLING WITH HIS TOP NATIONAL SECURITY TEAM ON A DAILY BASIS, INCLUDING MEETINGS IN THE SITUATION ROOM.

AND WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO AS THE UNITED STATES IS TO KEEP THE SITUATION FROM SPINNING OUT INTO AN ALL-OUT REGIONAL WAR.

AND THAT MEANS, FIRST, MOVING MILITARY ASSETS ON A DEFENSIVE BASIS INTO THE REGION TO BE ABLE TO HELP DEFEND ISRAEL AGAINST ANY ATTACK THAT COMES FROM IRAN OR ITS PROXIES.

SECOND, SENDING A CLEAR MESSAGE THAT ANY TYPE OF ESCALATION ON THE PART OF IRAN AND ITS PROXIES RISKS A COUNTERESCALATION AND A SLIDE INTO WAR.

AND THIRD, TRYING TO PUSH FOR DE-ESCALATION, TRYING TO PUSH TO LOWER THE TEMPERATURE IN THE REGION, PARTICULARLY BY GETTING THIS CEASE-FIRE IN PLACE, WHICH, IF WE GOT THE CEASE-FIRE IN GAZA, COULD LEAD TO A CEASE-FIRE IN LEBANON, AND ULTIMATELY, COULD LEAD TO A LARGER DIPLOMATIC EFFORT TO PRODUCE GREATER STABILITY ACROSS THE REGION.

>> I JUST HEARD YOU SAY THAT WE'RE MOVING THE MILITARY ASSETS THERE TO DEFEND ISRAEL IN CASE THERE'S AN ATTACK FROM IRAN.

EXPLAIN WHAT THAT MEANS, TO WHAT EXTENT, IF THERE'S AN ATTACK FROM IRAN ON ISRAEL, DOES THE UNITED STATES DIRECTLY DEFEND ISRAEL AND GET INVOLVED IN THE WAR?

>> WELL, HISTORICALLY, WE REALLY HAVEN'T DONE THAT, BECAUSE THAT HASN'T BEEN NECESSARY.

PRESIDENT BIDEN, HOWEVER, HAS TAKEN UNPRECEDENTED STEPS TO PUT THE U.S. MILITARY IN A POSITION TO BE ABLE TO DIRECTLY DEFEND ISRAEL.

WE DID THIS IN APRIL.

WHEN IRAN LAUNCHED MORE THAN 100 BALLISTIC MISSILES AND HUNDREDS OF DRONES AND CRUISE MISSILES AT ISRAEL, ALL IN ONE DAY, THE U.S. HAD SHIPS THAT ARE MOUNTED WITH INTERCEPTORS, WITH THE ABILITY TO SHOOT DOWN BALLISTIC MISSILES COMING TOWARDS ISRAEL.

THE U.S. HAD PLANES IN THE AIR SHOOTING DOWN DRONES AND CRUISE MISSILES.

AND WE WORKED WITH OTHER COUNTRIES, BOTH COUNTRIES IN THE REGION AND COUNTRIES IN EUROPE, IN A SMALL COALITION, THAT IN AN UNPRECEDENTED WAY DEFENDED ISRAEL.

WE ARE IN POSITION AND PREPARED TO DO THAT AGAIN, SHOULD THERE BE AN ATTACK ON ISRAEL, AND WE'RE SENDING A CLEAR MESSAGE TO ISRAEL'S ENEMIES THAT WE'RE DETERMINED TO DEFEAT THEIR ATTACK.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT ISRAEL HAD THE RIGHT OR JUSTIFICATION TO KILL A POLITICAL LEADER OF HAMAS IN IRAN?

>> WELL, I CAN'T SPEAK TO ANY SPECIFIC OPERATION.

ISRAEL HAS NOT SPOKEN TO ANY OPERATION IN IRAN, EITHER.

WHAT I CAN SAY IN GENERAL IS THAT ISRAEL WAS ATTACKED ON OCTOBER 7th BY HAMAS IN THE WORST MASSACRE OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE SINCE THE HOLOCAUST, AND I DO BELIEVE ISRAEL HAS A RIGHT TO GO AFTER THE AUTHORS OF THAT MASSACRE, AND TO DO SO IN A WAY THAT TRIES TO PROTECT AND SECURE THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL AGAINST FUTURE ATTACKS.

BECAUSE, AS YOU KNOW, WALTER, THE LEADERS OF HAMAS HAVE CONTINUED TO SAY, THEY WANT TO DO OCTOBER 7th AGAIN.

AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.

NOW, OUR GOAL, THOUGH, IS NOT FOR AN ENDLESS CYCLE OF VIOLENCE IN THE REGION.

IT'S NOT FOR ESCALATION.

IT IS FOR WHAT PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS LAID OUT AND IS CONTINUING TO WORK EVERY DAY TOWARDS WHICH IS GET A CEASE-FIRE IN PLACE, GET THE HOSTAGES HOME, GET AN END TO THE WAR.

REBUILD GAZA.

AND ULTIMATELY TRY TO GENERATE A POLITICAL HORIZON FOR THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.

>> HAS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PRESIDENT BIDEN AND PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU CHANGED SINCE OCTOBER 7th?

AND HOW IS THAT EVOLUTION GOING?

HAS BIDEN HAD TO BE MUCH TOUGHER ON HIM AND, YOU KNOW, CAN THEY KEEP THAT RELATIONSHIP TOGETHER?

>> LOOK, PRESIDENT BIDEN AND PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU HAVE KNOWN EACH OTHER FOR DECADES.

THROUGH UPS AND DOWNS, THROUGH CRISES, DIFFICULTIES, DISAGREEMENTS.

PRESIDENT BIDEN, AS YOU KNOW, HAS A DEEP CONVICTION ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF SUPPORTING THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

HE CALLS HIMSELF AN IRISH CATHOLIC ZIONIST AND BELIEVES THAT ISRAEL IS THE HOME OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE AS SOMETHING THAT MUST BE PROTECTED AND HE'LL WORK WITH ANYONE WHO IS SITTING IN THE PRIME MINISTER'S CHAIR.

HE'S WORKED WITH EVERY PRIME MINISTER, ALL THE WAY BACK TO GOAL DA MY YEAR.

AND SO, HE HAS ENGAGED WITH PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU SINCE OCTOBER 7th.

HE HAS SUPPORTED HIM IN ISRAEL'S DARKEST HOUR.

AND HE HAS CHALLENGED HIM ON CERTAIN ISSUES, BEHIND CLOSED DEERS, WHERE ISRAEL AND THE UNITED STATES DO NOT SEE EYE TO EYE.

THAT'S BEEN TRUE IN THE LAST TEN MONTHS, IT'S BEEN TRUE FOR THE LAST SEVERAL DECADES.

SO, NO, I DON'T SEE A FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE IN THE RELATIONSHIP.

I RATHER SEE THE FACT OF THIS LONG-STANDING RELATIONSHIP, YOU KNOW, PLAY INTO PRESIDENT BIDEN'S ABILITY TO BE TOTALLY STRAIGHT WITH PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU WHEN HE NEEDS TO BE, AND, YOU KNOW, I GET TO BEAR WITNESS TO THAT IN THE OVAL OFFICE AND WHEN THEY'RE ITE EITHER IN ISRAEL OR THE UNITED STATES.

>> GIVEN THE SUFFERING IN GAZA, NOW THE POTENTIAL FOOD INSECURITY, PERHAPS STARVATION THERE, JUST -- IN TERMS OF HUMANITARIAN DEALINGS, WHY ISN'T THE UNITED STATES ABLE TO DO MORE TO GET ISRAEL ABOARD AND DO MORE ON ITS OWN, JUST TO FLOOD THE ZONE WITH HUMANITARIAN RELIEF, EVEN AS THIS WAR IS BEING PROSECUTED?

>> WELL, WALTER, I'VE SAID BEFORE THAT OVER THE COURSE OF THIS WAR, THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE HAVE BEEN GOING THROUGH HELL.

YOU KNOW, SUFFERING UNDER BOMBARDMENT, SUFFERING UNDER DEPRAVATION OF VARIOUS KINDS THAT COME WITH BEING IN WAR, AND THE SUFFERING IS IMMENSE, AND IT IS EXTREMELY PAINFUL.

AND WE HAVE BEEN WORKING OVERTIME TO GET MORE HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE, TO FLOOD THE ZONE, EXACTLY AS YOU SAY, AND ACTUALLY, PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS MADE HUGE STRIDES IN THIS REGARD.

AFTER OCTOBER 7th, NO GATES WERE OPEN TO MOVE TRUCKS THROUGH TO GET FOOD IN.

PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS GOTTEN THE ISRAELIS TO OPEN MULTIPLE CROSSINGS.

HE'S GOTTEN THE ISRAELIS TO ACCEPT THE NEED FOR PAUSES, HUMANITARIAN PAUSES SO FOOD CAN MOVE AROUND.

HE'S GOTTEN THE ISRAELIS TO CHANGE THEIR POLICIES FOR ACCEPTING FOOD INTO THE PORT OF ISRAEL SO THAT IT CAN GET DOWN TO GAZA.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE AMOUNT OF AID THAT IS GETTING IN NOW, COMPARED TO WHAT WAS GETTING IN SOME MONTHS AGO, IT HAS GONE UP CONSIDERABLY.

IS IT ENOUGH?

IT'S NEVER ENOUGH.

DO ALL THE TYPES OF AID THAT NEED TO GET IN, MEDICAL, HUMANITARIAN AND SO FORTH, GET IN?

THEY DON'T.

EVERY DAY, WE'RE WORKING THIS PROBLEM.

EVERY DAY, I'M WORKING THIS PROBLEM.

BUT WE DO FEEL WE'VE MADE CONSIDERABLE PROGRESS.

WE ARE -- WE HAVE STARED INTO THE FACE OF FAMINE IN NORTHERN GAZA AND TRIED TO SURGE ENOUGH FOOD IN TO AVERT THAT FAMINE.

WE ARE STILL TRYING EVERY DAY TO AVERT FAMINE IN OTHER PARTS OF GAZA, AS WELL.

AND WE'LL KEEP DOING THAT, BUT WE DO BELIEVE THAT TANGIBLE PROGRESS IS A DIRECT RESULT OF PRESIDENTIAL INTERVENTION, HAS BEEN DEMONSTRABLY SHOWN.

WE'RE NOT SATISFIED WITH THAT.

WE NEED TO SEE MORE.

BUT I THINK THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN ACTUALLY DOES HAVE QUITE A BIT TO SHOW FOR HIS ENGAGEMENT WITH THE PRIME MINISTER.

>> YOU WERE IN THE THICK OF THIS HUGE PRISONER EXCHANGE THAT HAPPENED BETWEEN RUSSIA, THE UNITED STATES, AND THE WESTERN WORLD.

CALLED THE BIGGEST PRISONER EXCHANGE SINCE THE COLD WAR.

BUT I LOOK BACK AT THE COLD WAR, I DON'T THINK WE HAD ONE EVEN AS BIG DURING THE COLD WAR.

PROBABLY SINCE WORLD WAR II, IT'S THE BIGGEST.

TELL ME ABOUT, YOU HAD PAUL WHELAN OUT, YOU GOT EVAN GERSHKOVICH OUT.

IT WAS A BIG DEAL.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED WAS, IT WAS STUCK IN PLACE, AND THERE'S AN OLD DWIGHT EISENHOWER LINE, ABOUT WHEN A PROBLEM IS UNSOLVABLE, MAKE IT BIGGER AND LARGER, TRY TO DO BIGGER.

HOWEVER DID YOU END UP DOING THAT, WHICH IS ENLARGE THE PROBLEM, THUS SOLVE IT?

>> WELL, IT ACTUALLY BEGAN BEFORE EVAN GERSHKOVICH WAS EVEN TAKEN PRISONER IN RUSSIA.

IT STARTED WHEN WE WERE TRYING TO GET PAUL WHELAN OUT.

AND THE RUSSIANS WERE FALSELY ACCUSING PAUL OF BEING A SPY.

AND THEY WERE SAYING, WE WILL ONLY EXCHANGE PAUL WHELAN FOR A SPY, FOR AN INTELLIGENCE ASSET, AND IN PARTICULAR, THEY FOCUSED ON THIS FELLOW IN GERMANY, AN FSB AGENT WHO HAD BEEN CONVICTED OF MURDER.

NOW, WE, THE UNITED STATES, DID NOT HAVE THE CAPACITY TO TRADE HIM TO RUSSIA FOR PAUL WHELAN, OR ANYONE ELSE.

HE WAS IN GERMAN CUSTODY.

THEN, WHEN EVAN GERSHKOVICH WAS TAKEN, IT BECAME CLEAR TO US THAT THE ONLY WAY TO GET PAUL AND EVAN OUT WOULD BE TO PUT KRAZIKOV IN PLAY.

BUT TO GET THE GERMANS TO TAKE THE BOLD STEP OF PUTTING KRAZIKOV ON THE TABLE, THERE NEEDED TO BE SOMETHING FOR THE GERMANS TO BE ABLE TO SHOW THEIR OWN PEOPLE THAT THEY WERE DELIVERING, CONSISTENT WITH GERMAN INTERESTS AND GERMAN VALUES, AND THAT'S WHERE THE IDEA OF ADDING POLITICAL PRISONERS FROM RUSSIA TO THE MIX CAME INTO FOCUS, AND WE BEGAN WORKING ON THAT, MANY MONTHS AGO, TO BASICALLY CREATE A TRADE THAT INVOLVED AMERICANS, RUSSIAN POLITICAL PRISONERS, AND GERMANS HELD HOSTAGE IN RUSSIA, AND WHEN WE PUT IT ALL TOGETHER, WE ALSO THEN HAD TO ADD OTHER COUNTRIES, AS WELL, TO CREATE A FULL PACKAGE THAT COULD RESULT IN THE RELEASE OF THE AMERICAN PRISONERS AND THE RUSSIAN PRISONERS LAST WEEK.

>> THE FINAL STEPS OF THESE NEGOTIATIONS OCCURRED WHEN PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS RECOVERING FROM COVID, AND HE WAS TRYING TO WEIGH HIS OPTIONS IN THE 2024 RACE.

AND AT THE VERY END, ACCORDING TO "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL," HE ENDED UP HAVING TO CALL THE LEADER OF SLOVENIA AND IT WAS JUST AN HOUR BEFORE HE ENDS UP WITHDRAWING FROM THE RACE.

THAT'S AN INCREDIBLE TABLEAU.

TELL ME WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT THOSE NEGOTIATIONS AND THE MAN YOU WORK WITH FOR SO LONG, PRESIDENT BIDEN.

>> WELL, WHAT WAS KIND OF REMARKABLE ABOUT THIS DEAL IS THE NUMBER OF PIECES THAT HAD TO FALL INTO PLACE.

NORWAY, POLAND, GERMANY, TURKEY, AND ULTIMATELY SLOVENIA.

SLOVENIA WAS OFFERING UP TWO RUSSIAN SPIES TO BE RETURNED TO RUSSIA AS PART OF THE OVERALL DEAL.

IT WAS THE FINAL PIECE OF THE PUZZLE THAT WE WERE TRYING TO PUT INTO PLACE.

GET AGREEMENT FROM SLOVENIA, NOT JUST TO OFFER THEM UP, BUT TO DO IT BY AUGUST 1st SO THIS COULD ALL HAPPEN ON A SINGLE DAY.

SO, ON THE WEEKEND OF JULY 20th AND 21st, I WAS IN ASPEN, I THINK YOU WERE THERE, AS WELL.

AND I WAS IN MY HOTEL ROOM WHEN I RECEIVED A CALL FROM OUR TEAM SAYING, YOU NEED TO CALL YOUR COUNTERPART, THE SLOVENIAN NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER AND YOU NEED TO ASK HIM IF THEY CAN ACCELERATE THEIR PLAN TO RESOLVE THE CASES OF THESE TWO RUSSIAN SPIES SO THAT THEY CAN BE SENT TO TURKEY ON AUGUST 1st.

I MADE THAT CALL, WE HAD A GOOD, CONSTRUCTIVE CONVERSATION.

THEN, MY COUNTERPART SAID, YOU KNOW, THIS ULTIMATELY LIES WITH THE PRIME MINISTER, THE ONLY WAY WE CAN ACTUALLY GET THIS DONE IS IF THE PRESIDENT AND THE PRIME MINISTER HAVE A CONVERSATION TO LOCK IT IN.

SO, THE NEXT DAY, SUNDAY, JULY 21st, PRESIDENT BIDEN SPOKE WITH HIS SLOVENIAN COUNTERPART ABOUT NOON.

AND THEY AGREED, THEY SEALED THE DEAL, WE SAW THAT WE HAD THE PIECES IN PLACE, AND THREE HOURS LATER, PRESIDENT BIDEN ANNOUNCED TO THE WORLD HE WASN'T RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION.

THIS WAS ACTUALLY HIS LAST OFFICIAL ACT BEFORE HE WENT OUT TO THE COUNTRY AND THE WORLD TO DECLARE THAT HE WAS GOING TO RUN THROUGH THE TAPE OF THIS TERM, BUT NOT SEEK A SECOND TERM.

>> YOU WERE TRYING TO GET ALEEI NAVALNY OUT FOR A LONG TIME.

DO YOU REGRET OR FEEL THAT THE FACT THAT THESE NEGOTIATIONS TOOK SO LONG MEANT THAT WE WERE NOT ABLE TO GET NAVALNY OUT?

>> LOOK, WE'LL NEVER KNOW, AND I THINK ABOUT THAT QUESTION A LOT.

I THINK ABOUT THE OPPOSITE, TOO.

DOES THE FACT THAT HE WAS IN PLAY, IN ANY WAY, DID THAT FACT HAVE AN IMPACT ON HIS DEATH?

WE DON'T KNOW ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, FRANKLY.

SO, BECAUSE OF THE OPACITY AND THE DARKNESS OF THE RUSSIAN SYSTEM AND THE BRUTALITY OF THAT SYSTEM.

ALL WE COULD DO THROUGH THIS PERIOD WAS DRIVE AS AGGRESSIVELY AND RELENTLESSLY AS WE COULD TO GET TO AN END GAME.

AND THE FACT THAT WE ULTIMATELY GOT TO ONE, EVEN AFTER THE TRAGIC DEATH OF NAVALNY, EVEN AFTER MANY FALSE STARTS, EVEN AFTER MANY MONTHS, IS QUITE REMARKABLE.

THIS DEAL SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.

IT SHOULD NOT HAVE COME TOGETHER.

AND YET, SOMEHOW, IT DID.

AND I'M VERY PROUD OF THAT.

I THINK THE PRESIDENT IS VERY PROUD OF THAT.

AND WE'RE GRATEFUL TO HAVE THE AMERICANS HOME AND SO MANY RUSSIAN FREEDOM FIGHTERS FREE TO CONTINUE THEIR FIGHT.

>> IT WAS KIND OF PERSONAL, TOO, I NOTICED THAT YOU TEARED UP.

>> YEAH, I TRIED TO RETRACT THAT AT THE PODIUM AFTER I DID SO, BUT I DID, AND IT'S BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I INVESTED NOT JUST IN THE STRATEGY AND THE STATECRAFT OF TRYING TO GET THIS DONE, BUT I INVESTED WITH THE FAMILIES.

I MET WITH THEM REPEATEDLY OVER THE COURSE OF MONTHS, THE FAMILIES OF PAUL WHELAN AND EVAN GERSHKOVICH, AND, IN FACT,Y NAVALNY DIED, EVAN GERSHKOVICH'S PARENTS WERE IN MY OFFICE.

AND THEY SAID, DOES THIS MEAN THAT EVAN IS NOT COMING HOME?

AND I TOLD THEM THAT I WAS DETERMINED THAT HE WOULD COME HOME, THAT WE WOULD FIND A WAY, AND I SAID IT WITH GREAT CONFIDENCE AND CONVICTION, BUT IN THE BACK OF MY MIND, I DIDN'T KNOW FOR SURE.

AND SO, IT WAS MOMENTS LIKE THAT, OVER THE COURSE OF THIS EFFORT THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T HELP -- THERE'S A HUGE INTELLECTUAL COMPONENT TO THIS, BUT THERE'S AN EMOTIONAL COMPONENT, TOO, BECAUSE THESE ARE HUMAN BEINGS, AND THIS IS A HUMAN ENDEAVOR.

AND SO, ON THE DAY THEY WERE FINALLY RELEASED, I WAS A BIT EMOTIONAL ABOUT IT, ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES, ON BEHALF OF THE PRESIDENT, WHO I FEEL REALLY DELIVERED THIS, AND ON BEHALF OF HAVING SO MANY ALLIES WHO WERE WILLING TO STEP UP FOR US, FOR THE UNITED STATES, ALL THAT CONVERGED IN THAT MOMENT AT THE PODIUM.

>> DURING THE WEEKEND SITUATION ROOM MEETINGS ON THE MIDDLE EAST, VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS WAS THERE.

I KNOW YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT WHAT SHE WAS DOING PRECISELY IN THOSE MEETINGS, BUT JUST IN GENERAL, NOW THAT SHE'S THE NOMINEE OF THE PARTY, TELL ME -- GIVE ME SOME EXAMPLES OF WHAT SHE HAS DONE IN FOREIGN POLICY AND SITUATION ROOM, SOME STORY ABOUT HOW SHE'S FOCUSED THINGS.

>> WELL, I'VE GOT TO SIT IN THE SITUATION ROOM WITH VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS SINCE DAY ONE OF THE BIDEN/HARRIS ADMINISTRATION.

I'VE SEEN HER IN CRISES, INCLUDING WHEN ISRAEL'S BEEN UNDER ATTACK, WHEN U.S. SERVICE MEMBERS IN THE MIDDLE EAST HAVE BEEN UNDER ATTACK, WHEN RUSSIA INVADED UKRAINE.

I'VE SEEN HER COUNCIL THE PRESIDENT, I'VE SEEN HER ASK INCREDIBLY PENETRATING QUESTIONS OF OUR MILITARY AND INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY, AND I'VE SEEN HER PROPOSE STRATEGIC ELEMENTS OF THE INDO-PACIFIC.

SHE'S TRAVELED TO THE REGION REPEATEDLY.

SHE'S BUILT RELATIONSHIPS WITH THOSE LEADERS.

AND EVEN IN THE CASE OF THE HOSTAGE NEGOTIATIONS, VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS HAD A CRITICAL MEETING WITH CHANCELLOR SCHOLZ IN MUNICH, GERMANY, TO HELP MOVE THE BALL FORWARD.

SO, MUCH LIKE VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS A CENTRAL NATIONAL SECURITY PLAYER FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA, VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS HAS BEEN A CENTRAL PLAYER FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN, AND IS THE KIND OF PERSON WHO NOW, AFTER FOUR YEARS, HAS THE EXPERIENCE, THE DEPTH OF KNOWLEDGE, THE ENGAGEMENT, AND, FRANKLY, JUST THE GOOD JUDGMENT TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE THESE HARD ISSUES EXTREMELY WELL.

>> JAKE SULLIVAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.